D.C.Area Machine Shop Auction - 12/15/07 - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    I agree with Southpaw and I think members should be required to post auction dates at least once a month. Red

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    Quote Originally Posted by robinr View Post
    This issue definitely goes both ways, a while back rivett 608 got a good flaming, for not posting an upcoming auction on here. He didn't post it because the person who told him about it, didn't want it publicized, but there were people on hear that wanted to know about it. So maybe you just can't win.

    someone posts and get grief for it, they don't post and everyone complains about machinery going to the scrapyard because no-one was there to bid on it at the auction.

    I guess it would be impossible to win.

    Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by kendall View Post
    someone posts and get grief for it, they don't post and everyone complains about machinery going to the scrapyard because no-one was there to bid on it at the auction.

    I guess it would be impossible to win.

    Ken
    Easy to "win" but I suppose if you are so "nuance impaired" that you can't see the night and day difference between blabbing about the auction in DC and informing members of a 1910 radial drill that's about to be scrapped if someone doesn't buy it, then lord help you man, is all I can say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Sparky View Post
    I agree with Southpaw and I think members should be required to post auction dates at least once a month. Red
    In other words you are too lazy or slack to scan the net for newpaper classifieds and such and want the info, that others worked hard to obtain, handed to you on a silver platter ?

  4. #24
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    #1. There was no reason for this auction to be posted in the antique forum. The Steptoe shaper doesn't qualify it. They were made up into the 50's, and I can see from the photo that this one is a later one with the goofy motor drive that almost doubles the length of the machine.

    #2. There is indeed an argument to be made if a nice old machine is on the verge of being scrapped. Nothing at this auction qualifies. All the machines are reasonably new and desirable, and there's nothing unique for sale. As has been mentioned, machinery sells high around DC anyway, so nothing at this auction is in danger.

    #3. Publicizing an item in the classifieds, Craigslist, ect. is different than publicizing an auction, for reasons which should be obvious. In a non-auction situation, items are for sale for an indefinite amount of time, the price is fixed (more or less), ect. ect. I don't see anything wrong with posting non-auction items, because anybody who knows about the item has already had their chance to buy it. Presumably, if it's still for sale, it's because they passed on it.

    Andy

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    Boy, I did not mean to stir up such emotions.

    My experience with my metalworking friends is one of comradary even if you barely know them. It is their, and my desire to help and assist in the furtherance of the hobby or vocation.

    They will discuss and show their competitors design ideas, how to do things better and faster etc.

    They would not reveal the location of the next item low priced item they are going to buy but they certainly broadcast the item if they are not going to buy it. Likewise they would not reveal customer lists. But they work together with sense of brotherly comradary.

    They would certainly make sure that we all know of upcoming auctions etc.

    I recognize that this is a much larger forum than a regional gathering. However the competiveness shown by purposely not sharing information of interest to others does not seem like a way to build comradary.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
    Boy, I did not mean to stir up such emotions.

    My experience with my metalworking friends is one of comradary even if you barely know them. It is their, and my desire to help and assist in the furtherance of the hobby or vocation.

    They will discuss and show their competitors design ideas, how to do things better and faster etc.

    They would not reveal the location of the next item low priced item they are going to buy but they certainly broadcast the item if they are not going to buy it. Likewise they would not reveal customer lists. But they work together with sense of brotherly comradary.

    They would certainly make sure that we all know of upcoming auctions etc.

    I recognize that this is a much larger forum than a regional gathering. However the competiveness shown by purposely not sharing information of interest to others does not seem like a way to build comradary.
    Well, there's certainly nothing wrong with telling friends about things for sale that they might be interested in, auction or not. I do, and I'm guessing that everyone else who has posted here does as well.
    That's not what's being discussed, though. How many friends do you have? As of now, the forum has 24,577 members, and an unknown number of unregistered lurkers. I am not being sarcastic, just pointing out that the camaraderie between friends that you describe is a different thing from broadcasting information randomly to 24,577 people.

    Andy

  7. #27
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    I just did something I have never done before; I read the 'Guidelines' thread. There were a few things I looked for but didn't find:

    There was nothing that said, don't post auctions.
    No cutoff date for when a machine is considered antique is given.

    I really doubt that all 25,000 forum members are going to show up at this auction. Not all of them read Antique Machinery. It's not likely that a forum member in say, California, who does read AM is going to come all the way to Virgnia for an auction. If he does, there's no guarantee he will bid on the same item that you are. I am not good at figuring probablility or statistics, but I would say offhand that is is only a very small likelyhood that posting this auction on this forum will have any effect on raising the price of the particular objects you wish to bid on.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by art_deco_machine View Post
    I just did something I have never done before; I read the 'Guidelines' thread. There were a few things I looked for but didn't find:

    There was nothing that said, don't post auctions.
    No cutoff date for when a machine is considered antique is given.
    There is also nothing about murdering your aunt on a Sunday, or ten billion other possible "don't do this" suggestions. I can't think of everything (or take the time to type out a "don't do this" manifesto) and have to hope common sense will prevail.

    I really doubt that all 25,000 forum members are going to show up at this auction. Not all of them read Antique Machinery. It's not likely that a forum member in say, California, who does read AM is going to come all the way to Virgnia for an auction. If he does, there's no guarantee he will bid on the same item that you are. I am not good at figuring probablility or statistics, but I would say offhand that is is only a very small likelyhood that posting this auction on this forum will have any effect on raising the price of the particular objects you wish to bid on.
    So I take it you didn't even bother to read my post where I pointed out how just one person can effect an auction ? And unlike you, I've been to literally hundreds of machine tool auctions and know exactly what I'm taking about. I've seen it happen for sure at least five times, and lord knows how many where I didn't know. And it's not the 25K members I'm thinking about so much as the 75,000 lurkers that you are unaware of, but being owner of the forum and checking stats, I am.

  9. #29
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    The definition of "antique" is something more than 100 years old, though usually tools, cars, ect. which are subject to constant use are generally considered antiques after 25 years. So you're right, that shaper is by definition an antique. It still seems unnecessary for it to be posted in this forum, though. It would fit better in General or in Machinery For Sale. It would be like posting an auto auction that happened to have one 1957 Plymouth Fury, and a hundred other cars made after 1980, to an antique car collector's board.
    Andy

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    If the original post did not belong in this forum, then why didn't the moderator just state that fact and let it go. Can't the moderator terminate or lock a thread? This thing keeps bobbing to the top for everyone to read and of course I just got to click on it.

  11. #31
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    For the folks that live in the middle of nowhere in Kansas, I wish someone would go to the auction and report on the prices. We would then know how cheap or bad the whiners got hurt. I have been to thousands of auctions and have been out bid that many times also,but I still have more things than I problemly need. My wife says whats need got to do with it, its the wanting it that drive you. Bill

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    To the bottom feeding whiners: get over it. It is a public auction and should be adverised wherever, however and as ofter an possible.

    Most the guy on here are making money with their machines. pay a decent price, make a decent buck with it and move on. I get soooo tired of hearing "That is just too much money" only to see one sold at auction later for more.

    Also, put yourself in the owners shoes, they want to get as much money as possible out of the assets. Whether it is the actual owner, his widow, kids, etc.

    I guess my point is: go to the sale with your best guess in your pocket. Be prepared to pay that (which is still normally wayyyy less than buying the same thing retail). You guys biatch about china and their bottom feeding piece part pricing then flame a guy for telling others where good deals might be had.

    Rant over.

  13. #33
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    I appreciate the heads up about this auction. The smart move by those who are really upset about this notice would have been to keep quiet and in two days this would be 20 posts down. Myself and other regulars would have read and and the good deed would have been done without raising so much attention. I dont mind the attention, but for those who do, I say the more you complain the more it does exactly what you complain about.

    This auction listed an old drill bit grinder that I am seeking parts for. I it might not be the one I think it is and either way: Snow storms, Christmas and work all conspire to keep me home. But, I still appreciate the word.

    I think Joe express my thoughts pretty well and speaks for most of us. The preservation of the machinery is more important than exactly who gets the best deal on which item.

  14. #34
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    Default Peter said in 18 words what it took me three paragraphs...

    ...too bad I don't have a "concise" key on the computer keyboard.

    [quote]The preservation of the machinery is more important than exactly who gets the best deal on which item.[unquote]

    And what I tried to add was "In time all works out for the best" which is more of an outlook/big picture sort of thing. And as I've said before "The Future is a Really BIG place."

    Yeah, I'm done on this subject. Lets talk about something really important, like what about the new Crank Planer Videos on youtube.

    Best,
    Joe in NH

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    Default My 2 cents..

    When going through my log files today, I found a large spike in referrals from this site which led me to look around. I came across this thread which is certainly an informative read. It even motivated me to blog about it at www.globalauctionblog.com .

    While I can see both sides of this discussion, all of you should stop and ask yourself one question.

    When the day comes and you are done collecting, whether it is from boredom, old age, or it's now your estate, would you want all your fellow enthusiasts to know about your auction sale so that your treasures could go to loving machine shops and your widow and family have a comfortable retirement? Or would you rather have only a few local people know so that they could get everything "cheap"?

    Keep up the work on this great site.

    Dwayne
    http://www.industrialauctionguide.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by AuctionKing View Post
    When the day comes and you are done collecting, whether it is from boredom, old age, or it's now your estate, would you want all your fellow enthusiasts to know about your auction sale so that your treasures could go to loving machine shops and your widow and family have a comfortable retirement? Or would you rather have only a few local people know so that they could get everything "cheap"?
    Obviously "you" as a seller would want everyone on the planet Earth to know about your sale. But "you" as a potential buyer at said auction sale, would not want anyone other than close associates to know about it.

    This thread is about "you's" who are not attending the auction, who don't know the owner of the shop being auctioned and couldn't care less if said owner gets a good price for everything, but giving free advertising for them anyway. And since they are not going to the auction themselves, they couldn't care less about missing any deals, and are therefore eager to post notice.

    I'd actually have much more respect for an auction blabber if they were attending the auction and were interested in some of the major pieces to bid on, since that would mean they truly were telling everyone out of "the goodness of their heart" rather than the usual "hey look everybody...look what I know" routine.

  17. #37
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    I've been following this for days and there are some strong feelings on both sides of this issue.

    I doubt the original poster had any malicious intentions or thought he was letting the cat out of the bag so to speak.

    I would have let others in on the auction with purely harmless intentions and to put the word out to others that might be close enough to take advantage of any deals that might be found at said auction.

    From the flaming the original poster has received in connection with his harmless heads up on an auction he thought might be of interest to others in the area of said auction--- I really doubt anyone will make the mistake of letting anyone in on any auctions or sales that might surface in the future for fear of similar reprisals.

    I can't help but think the lack of knowledge of future sales that might come up will be a greater loss than any perceived or even real advantage of keeping a sale quiet from others.

    It's always been my experiance that there are usually enough buyers at any sale to keep things very active---it only takes 2 bidders(or 1 & the shill)that want the same item to raise the price. It's a rare auction, that has any advertising, that good items don't bring a good price---junk sells cheap(maybe).


    My point is---I think those reading this thread will shy away from any similar postings in the future and with that silence will come a larger void of purchases or knowledge of sales that might have been posted otherwise.

    I just think the loss will be greater than the gain---I'm sorry for that......

    BTW--With almost 1200 views--believe me the cats out of the bag & this thread has gotten some serious exposure!

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdc View Post
    My point is---I think those reading this thread will shy away from any similar postings in the future and with that silence will come a larger void of purchases or knowledge of sales that might have been posted otherwise.

    I just think the loss will be greater than the gain---I'm sorry for that......
    If by "similar postings" you mean like the auction in DC, well good. But if you are under the curious delusion posting about an individual antique machine for sale is a "similar posting", you are nuance challenged.

    I've already mentioned that, to me the difference between posting about the auction in DC and an individual antique machine, is night and day. One is bad, the other is good. But apparently to some of you it's all murky gray and I guess we have to leave it at that.

  19. #39
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    Does this forum have a moderator? Aren't personal attacks a little over the top?

  20. #40
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    FWIW, I didn't mean the above posting as a personal attack, just trying to get some of you to think a bit deeper about this instead of just glossing the surface.


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