Thread: D.C.Area Machine Shop Auction - 12/15/07

I'm done......................

I can see severals valid reasons for either side of this debate but there is one huge reason why they shouldn't be posted here.

-and that reason is (drum roll please):

The owner of this site asks that we don't.

That's certainly good enough for me and should be for anyone else. He spends his time and treasure keeping this site up and running for all of our use plus it's FREE (one of my favorite words) and I have more fun here than I could in the Clinton Kwiki Mart parking lot- of a different kind of course.

Come on guys respect the man's request. We owe him even more than that...

Merry Christmas and I hope everyone gets their Deckels polished and their Shaublins stroked, or the other way around if you prefer, on New Year's eve....

-and thank you Milicron...

Originally Posted by hybidder

-and thank you Milicron...

Ditto.

Back to the antique machinery party analogy. If the person putting on the party asks you not to put your greasy work boots on the furniture, then you don't put your boots on the furniture.

Meanwhile, there's that whole nuther world of Craigslist, in my basement/place of work/backyard, or even postings on the board. Maybe my Phoenix Iron Works drilling machine (It is NOT a drill press) is out there - somewhere.

Hope like the Christmas Spirit springs eternal.

I'm done too.

Merry Christmas,
Joe in NH

Yeesh. This sure is a touchy subject. One thing I've learned from it is that I am glad I am not a used machinery dealer (re-seller). Having something like an online forum threatening your livelihood would be pretty nerve-wracking. I once got snapped at for posting something about an auction. As others have said, it will always be a good AND bad thing.

So, the only time posting about an auction ISN'T frowned upon is if we are selling the machinery ourselves?

Buy yourself a Deckel mill for Christmas !

If I were planning to bid on that auction, would I be just in complaining that it was publicized to an additional 75,000 people? If things at auction always went dirt cheap, wouldn't it just bring down the overall resale value of used machinery? Milacron, have you noticed a decline in resale value of machinery since so much is now being outsourced? I'm surprised no one has snapped up that Yang that you have for sale.

Anyway, I guess I am in agreement with the idea that we should respect our moderator's wishes. It must take a LOT of time keeping this board in order. Also, the chances of an auction being "spoiled" by people publicizing it are probably greater than the chances of someone local not even knowing about an auction that they would be interested in.

Originally Posted by ions82

Yeesh. This sure is a touchy subject. One thing I've learned from it is that I am glad I am not a used machinery dealer (re-seller). Having something like an online forum threatening your livelihood would be pretty nerve-wracking. I once got snapped at for posting something about an auction. As others have said, it will always be a good AND bad thing.

So, the only time posting about an auction ISN'T frowned upon is if we are selling the machinery ourselves?

Buy yourself a Deckel mill for Christmas !

The fact that you can't comprehend the vast difference in someone advertising their own machine or auction here, and someone who has no interest in an auction, advertising said auction here, simply boggles my mind. Not to mention the nuance between advertising someone elses auction of antique machines vs modern machines...I guess that concept is so far over your head I shouldn't even mention it as your brain would implode.

MUD...help me out here !

The fact that you can't comprehend the vast difference in someone advertising their own machine or auction here, and someone who has no interest in an auction, advertising said auction here, simply boggles my mind. Not to mention the nuance between advertising someone elses auction of antique machines vs modern machines...I guess that concept is so far over your head I shouldn't even mention it as your brain would implode.

You'd think this whole concept would be simple enough, w/ just a gray area between old (yet desirable) & totally obsolete headed for scrap (desirable to a very few), but no.

Originally Posted by morsetaper2

You'd think this whole concept would be simple enough, w/ just a gray area between old (yet desirable) & totally obsolete headed for scrap (desirable to a very few), but no.

I know...downright depressing...makes you wonder if it's ever worth explaining anything to anyone here as some still don't get even the simpliest of concepts and nuances.

Well I was down in the Baltimore-Washington area at the time with a truck, but decided not to take the extra day to stay over for the auction due to all the publicity. (& being tired of being on the road). So, again, did anyone actually attend the auction and how were the prices???

smt

Originally Posted by Milacron

MUD...help me out here !

Don't know if I can help. The words aren't getting through to the intended recipients. Maybe if you cut and past some of the previous posts as replys over and over? This is why I think you should post some guidelines for posting auctions - so you/we can point to them and say "what part of this don't you understand?"

but decided not to take the extra day to stay over for the auction due to all the publicity.

Sooo, maybe it's reverse psychology? Post the auction here, get 3000+ people to view the thread by making it controversial, they all stay home and someone goes and picks the cherries?

"The fact that you can't comprehend the vast difference in someone advertising their own machine or auction here, and someone who has no interest in an auction, advertising said auction here, simply boggles my mind."

Well, my mind isn't boggled. Seems pretty simple. Some people want to buy stuff at auction for peanuts so they can flip it and turn a profit. That's pretty much the bottom line of this thread/argument. Sounds a lot like cut-throat real estate agents. A "middle-man". God forbid anyone should inform people that would go to the auction, buy something, and actually USE it. Trying to belittle members of this forum because they are different part of the industry is pretty weak.

The other day, I bought a DoAll bandsaw from the local dealer for $1500. I was at the auction where he got it for $200. He did nothing to it. However, I now need a new saw. So, I'll pay him what he wants for it. At future auctions, he said he won't bid against me when there is something I need. I'm not so sure I believe him.

End users want to get a bargain. Dealers do, too. I don't think that is reason enough to indirectly insult forum members. Maybe there is a lot of money to be made in used machinery. Regardless, I don't think it would be worth it if it meant that I had to carry around that kind of attitude.

Originally Posted by ions82

Well, my mind isn't boggled. Seems pretty simple. Some people want to buy stuff at auction for peanuts so they can flip it and turn a profit. That's pretty much the bottom line of this thread/argument. Sounds a lot like cut-throat real estate agents. A "middle-man". God forbid anyone should inform people that would go to the auction, buy something, and actually USE it. Trying to belittle members of this forum because they are different part of the industry is pretty weak.

The other day, I bought a DoAll bandsaw from the local dealer for $1500. I was at the auction where he got it for $200. He did nothing to it. However, I now need a new saw. So, I'll pay him what he wants for it. At future auctions, he said he won't bid against me when there is something I need. I'm not so sure I believe him.

End users want to get a bargain. Dealers do, too. I don't think that is reason enough to indirectly insult forum members. Maybe there is a lot of money to be made in used machinery. Regardless, I don't think it would be worth it if it meant that I had to carry around that kind of attitude.

My gawd man...after all this..you still don't get it ? Re read the thread and notice the very first complaints about the original auction blabbing that started this thread were not from me, but from other end users like yourself. I guess what irritates me the most about your attitude is you think it's an "evil dealer" thing wanting to inhibit auction blabbing on this forum. That has nothing to do with it...I would have had exactly the same attitude about this 7 years ago when I was a manufacturer of tapping machines.

Re getting machines for peanuts...well, everyone including you would want that if it was possible. But what I'm thinking of is mostly just not contributing to them selling for higher than dealer retail..which is what happens at many auctions.

As to your last paragraph, I don't know how to respond as it frankly makes absolutely no sense.

Yeah. I guess I missed something along the way. I was just browsing through the posts, and the only time that it seemed people were being insulted was when those that are AGAINST the auction announcement were criticizing those that are FOR it. Maybe I didn't read carefully enough. However, maybe it's better that I didn't as my "brain would implode" because I "don't get even the simpliest of concepts and nuances."

It's also a different ballgame out here in the desert. At auction, nothing ever goes for anywhere near dealer retail prices. Once upon a time, there was a fellow that owned a machine shop in Albuquerque, NM. Unfortunately, he was stricken with a degenerative disease. His decided to close his shop and have an auction. When it came time for the CNC machines (Mazak & Daewoo lathes... both running parts) to be sold, the potential bidders decided to work together and not show any interest so the machines would go dirt cheap. IIRC, they went for something like $750 each. Well, before the machines had even been moved, they were already re-sold (by the dealers that won them) for about ten times that. Meanwhile, the shop owner was watching his body slowly die, and he was left with a stack of medical bills and a handful of change from the auction. I'm guessing he would've appreciated it if more people were "blabbing" about that auction. The way that people conspired to keep things as cheap as possible just put a bad taste in my mouth. It's always fun to find a good deal, but that whole scene just really blurred the line between ethical and unethical. To me, I'm bothered even more that the whole thing was over the opportunity to make a quick buck.

Anyway, taking in to consideration many of the things that people say about auctions out east, it's a wonder why anyone would go to them at all. Between the prices that beyond the top of the spectrum (way too HIGH) and all the underhanded shenanigans that go on, it almost seems that most of them would be a waste of time. My condolances go out to those that depend on auctions in order to make a living.

Anything I've written here should be taken with a grain of salt. I don't have a vast amount of experience, and I'm still trying to learn about the industry. I just figured I'd offer a little input from the perspective of someone that is still pretty new to the whole scene. Between my own experiences and from reading more of the posts in this thread, I can respect why some people feel as though auctions shouldn't be broadcast. For some, auctions are a mainstay for their livelihood! I can see how it would be discouraging if throngs of inexperienced and emotional bidders showed up to an auction and started bidding wrecklessly. Doesn't sound like my idea of fun!

OK Ions, I now have some prespective on where you are coming from on this. They story of the collusion to keep prices down on the terminal illness owner is sad, but extremely rare occurance. I've been to hundreds of job shop and industrial auctions over the years and have never seen that happen..not once. I have been to the auctions of terminal owners, but even in their sad state they had the sense to employ a proper auctioneer like Asset Sales, and got top dollar for everything.

Re the Mazak and Daewoo prices, this is meaningless without stating the models (or size) aprox year and condition of each. There are lots of early 80's Mazak CNC's out there that even Asset Sales couldn't get 500 bucks for at live auction. By your "ten times that" figure, $7,500 would be about right retail for a mid 1980's 6 inch chuck machine that might sell for $4,000 or so at typical East Coast auction.

Sellers need to do some research and not just go with the first auctioneer that comes to mind. I was at the auction of small job shop in NC about this time last year, where most CNC machines went dirt cheap. There was plenty of advertising and it was on Proxybid on the net as well. But the retiring owner picked an auctioneer he knew and liked, but one that specialized in selling cars at auctions intead of machine tools. Machines were not cleaned and looked awful in the photos, thus almost no internet bidding. By the time of the auction they had been cleaned some and looked good in real life. But the auctioneers inexperience was partially responsible for some CNC machines (1995-1997 vintage mid size excellent cond. Tawainese turning and VMC) going jaw drop cheap.

The point here is sellers should not just pick their auctioneer out of a hat and hope for the best. Do research and realize the least expensive auctioneer will probably be the most expensive in the end.