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Iron Filler

G Dean

Aluminum
Joined
May 9, 2005
Location
Georgia
There have been discussions here in the past about the black mystery substance used to
smooth the castings on old machinery. I have always wondered what the stuff is, but was
unable to find any definite info. Most old painting texts simply state "apply iron filler", and
leave it at that. While browsing Google Books this evening, I happened across the following:
http://books.google.com/books?id=1z9DAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA235&dq=iron+filler&lr=&as_brr=1
http://books.google.com/books?id=_xxLAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA147&dq=iron+filler&lr=&as_brr=1
Apparently, there were a great many different formulations of this stuff. The 'Keystone filler'
mentioned is a ground mineral substance, and is said to be commonly used in machinery fillers:
http://books.google.com/books?id=XdU5AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA266&vq=keystone
For what its worth...
 
I remember reading at least one discussion about that filler...I can't believe you found the formula for it. Some of the ingredients are obscure for sure(almost sounds like a witches brew) I'm sure someone will appreciate your effort.

It would be interesting to try to replicate the mixture and see how it comes out. I wonder how many here have even seen lamp black...believe me it's black and it's tough to remove from whatever it gets on or in.
 
Thanks! I knew there was much more to it than meets the eye, but that it also had to be dirt cheap or they would not have used it.

I love the part about being able to sand it without clogging the paper within a reasonable amount of time

The links explain exactly what lamp black is. Since it was very pure and not especially cheap, very little was used of it.

Now we need to figure out what some of this stuff is.

Stiff Keg Lead
Bolted Whiting
Bituminous Schist Ore

And so on.
 
I'm wondering if this is the same "whiting" http://www.khue.com/dept/chem/white.htm it's the only other reference i've ever heard of for whiting.(used for stained glass)

Bituminous Schist Ore---perhaps some type of coal powder?

Stiff Keg Lead--- some type of lead paint coating used to seal kegs perhaps? This will probably be a hard item to come by unless someone has knowledge of it's content,which I assume contains lead.

Anyone old enough to remember these items probably isn't on the internet,but if anyone remembers just one and enough of them are identified perhaps the formula could be replicated.
 
Bituminous Schist

One of a number of hits on Google

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/bituminous+schist

Near to being what we would call oil shale today.

I.E., rock containing tarry substance


Bolted Whiting

Everybody knew in the old days, apparently. Similar to finely ground pumice. Probably in your can of Bon Ami.

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&...as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=images


Keg Lead

I.E. a name for white lead paste. Its function would be as a dryer (?).

http://books.google.com/books?id=oDNDAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA304&lpg=PA304&dq=%22keg+lead%22&source=web&ots=SGlSUkjH-Z&sig=tk6qaHOoHwuKyXnU_Ds9uqjCOIY
 
Looks like I don't type fast enough., but....

Stiff Keg Lead
An old name for white lead. Not readily available...

Bolted Whiting
Powdered calcium carbonate. Sold in milk cartons in many hardware & paint stores as 'whiting'.

Bituminous Schist Ore
This one I am not sure about, but the material does seem to be similar to oil shale. Another
reference speaks of 'Keystone black filler' being mined in the neighborhood of Muncy, Pa.,
and being sold for use in iron fillers. Interestingly, there is presently a Keystone Filler
and Manufacturing Co. in Muncy, which makes various ground mineral products. Maybe
the 'black filler' is still produced, though you would probably have to buy a rail car load.
 
So for this use it is probably a finely ground oily shale paste/powder mixture.

The hardest part in trying to replicate an old mixture of this sort is that they used what was available at the time that they were familiar with and these mixtures don't even exist any longer. I'm still betting this could be replicated with enough input.

I don't need any,but it's still interesting to try to figure out the formula & how it's done and the many strange items that go into the stuff. This formula or at least the mixture itself has been lost,but the www makes it possible to maybe put it back together with the input from many sources.

One person might have trouble with this formula,but collectively it might not be so difficult.
 
The best part about this thread is we are homing in on what it actually was.

In earlier threads on the old forum folks were suggesting all sorts of "paint type" stuff that it certainly wasn't.

Plainly the end result was a cheap solid that could be sanded - exactly similar to the fillers we use today.

The stuff on my machines in closed up non weathered and not top coated areas was very plainly put on with something like a whisk broom.
 
I would like to experiment with these old formulas, however, obtaining some of the ingredients
could be a problem. It is funny that you should mention a whisk broom, as I thought the same
about the finish on a bench grinder that I have. The grinder is unusually well made for an item
of this type, but no similar effort was made in applying the filler, which apparently was thinned
and 'broomed' on. No topcoat was applied. I think in many cases, machines were coated with
the filler and were either not painted, or were topcoated with a clear varnish. My drill press has
remnants of a varnish coating over the filler. The filler on this machine is relatively soft, and
becomes tacky when wiped with mineral spirits. In a previous thread, someone suggested that
Gilsonite might be used in fillers, and in this case, I wouldn't be surprised.
 
Some mention of one of the ingredients acting as a dryer, which would be needed if the bituminous schist was indeed rather oily, or as seems likely a rock that had only partially completed the process of converting into coal. If I remember correctly bituminous coal is relatively soft and more brownish, while anthracite coal is very hard and black, with higher caloric values.

Point is that this filler would need to dry without having any oily properties. Using mineral spirits on it might tend to convert some of the ingredients back toward more basic properties?

The above is only true, if you intended to paint over the filler. If a finish coat was not needed, as some posters have suggested, then that might be less important. Over time the oils present would evaporate away and the filler would likely get harder and more brittle.
 
After the Tay Bridge disaster in Scotland in 1879, the court of enquiry found that the failure of the bridge had been due in part to lack of bracing. However, it also came to light that blow holes in the cast iron pillars had been filled with a substance known as Beaumont Egg which if I remember correctly was some sort of witches brew of iron filings, beeswax, varnish etc.

In Tony's lather site mention is made of beaomont egg bening used on Drummond lathe casting to fill imperfections.

" Old-time manufacturers were not so concerned about the quality of the castings they used - and had no qualms about applying a filler composed of lamp black, fiddler's rosin and iron filings or "borings" to cover up faults in the metal (an alternative was a mixture of sulphur, cast iron siftings and sal-ammoniac). The first mix, almost universally used, was known in the foundry trade as 'Beaumont's Egg' , possibly from a corruption of "beamontage", a filler used in the furniture trade. To hide minor faults in a casting Beaumont's Egg was run into blow holes and porous areas by melting it with a hot iron bar followed by rubbing down to make it almost undetectable. As an interesting aside the supplier of the cast-iron columns that collapsed in the Tay-bridge disaster used 'Beaumont's Egg' to cover his poor workmanship."
 
Interestingly, there is presently a Keystone Filler and Manufacturing Co. in Muncy, which makes various ground mineral products. Maybe the 'black filler' is still produced, though you would probably have to buy a rail car load.
I found an article
http://books.google.com/books?id=8hUMAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA487
that mentions a Keystone Paint & Filler Co. of Muncy, PA. as the maker of "Keystone black filler". Maybe they were the predecessor of Keystone Filler and Manufacturing Co.

Irby
 
If you search this forum for "asphaltum", you'll find the previous threads on this topic. I suspect that Keystone Filler may be related to Asphaltum, as both are bituminous compounds. Lamp black, asphaltum, rosin, whiting, and who knows what other mystical ingredients are available from Graphical Chemical & Ink Co..

With G. Dean's recipes, I think we may be closing in on an authentic filler. Now all we need is the magic incantation and a big iron cauldron.

Happy new year, all.
Jeff
 
Gilsonite at one time was sold for such fillers. All the problems with removing it sound just like it. It is found mostly in north east Utah and was hauled out on a narrow gage railroad called the Uintah Railway. Checking some history there are at least four patents in the name of Sam Gilson It was even tried as a sealer for beer barrels by Adolphus Busch (Bud and Busch beer) but it spoiled the beer. Today they make premium gasoline out of it. Most of my info. comes from a book called Unitah Railway The Gilsonite Route by Henry E. Bender Jr.
 
Guys & Gals:

Anyone trying to decipher ancient formulas should get a copy of the cross-reference of obsolete chemical names from Lindsay Publications.

Gilsonite ! As in UGL United Gilsonite Laboratories! I used the oil-based UGL masonry waterproofer on one wall in my basement so that I could paint the cinder blocks with latex-based paint. This worked SWELL. I was NOT trying to waterproof the blocks, I just wanted something to fill the very-porous cinderblocks. (True 1950's CINDER blocks, not the superior modern concrete blocks of today.) It worked really well; I was able to roll on the latex paint very easily. Thirteen years later, no sign of peeling or efflorescence. (Sp? Mineral salts collecting on the surface of the blocks.)

Reading that Gilsonite was used in the iron fillers of yore makes me want to experiment with the oil-based UGL paint as an iron filler when I refinish the legs of my lathe.

I will say that the oil-based UGL product certainly smells very strong! Open the windows, for sure!

UGL sells both an oil-based and a water-based version. I haven't tried the water-based type but I am 100% satisfied with the oil-based product as a cinder block sealer, and I'm itching to try it as an iron filler.

This board is a never-ending source of ideas.

John Ruth
 
"Reading that Gilsonite was used in the iron fillers"

???

Where did you read that John?

We gathered it had a little cheap varnish to make it possible to apply with trowel or stiff brush.

Or is anybody actually digesting the links presented at the start of this topic?

Experimenting is great, but the acid test is:

If it isn't bone hard and sandable without clogging sand paper in a week's time, you probably should start over. :)
 
Gilsonite

John Ruth:

I spoke with the folks at American Gilsonite - see prior threads. Their product was (and is) used in paints and there is a recipe on their web site. The paint is called "chassis black" - originally used for auto frames. They have no recollection of it being used for machinery, but of course that was a long time ago.

What we need now is some experimentation - I have enough ingredients to start messing around, but like so many of my projects, more good intentions than actual time spent doing.

Jeff
 








 
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