Thread: 12 GA From Hell

I'm a visiter here.Great site. I am visiting
to tell about a project 2 others and I on
AR forum are experimenting with.It is long
12ga brass case, chambered in heavier stronger
guns to get better than nitro express power.
Much like the old paradox guns used in Africa
years ago.Butwith a much stronger case. we made case by putting 12ga size rim on bmg brass.
Other 2 guys put theirs on big Borchardt
falling blocks and I put mine in a Savage 210
12 ga action with heavy barrel and stock.
The Savage has a big three lug bolt head, as
shown in first picture next to an Enfield bolt.
In 2nd pic is our case next to regular 12 ga
case, which can also be fired in our
chambers.Ed Hubel

Looks like an interesting project. Do you have a drawing/measurements of the case? How are you making the cases? Do you have any load data?

Hubel;

That thing looks a lot like the old 8 bore and 4 bore guns I have seen at the Ohio Gun Collectors Shows. They are basicly huge shotgun shells, all brass, loaded with a single slug or shot. The guns I have seen are all beautifully made heavy custom double guns from England and the European mainland, built around the turn of the century (1900, not the last turn of the century). Some of the guns have rifled barrels, and some are smoothbore. Apparently big, dangerous game was shot at close range, well below 100 yards. Have fun with your project.

Perk in Cincinnati

Here is a comparison of some sizes ..

Davy

Davy-There a bunch of us that are getting 4bore
barrels made to set up some, with 4 bore
cases we made from 20mm brass.We may have them going in a year or so.

Milgunsmith--Case is max of 3.85 inches long.
Rim is .880- base is .802- mouth is .770.
I gotten 730 gr hard cast Dixie lead slug
up to 2500fps at 30k psi.Rob has gotten a 750gr
banded solid up to 3000 fps in his falling
block.I've gotten a 327 gr sabot out at 3900.
To put rim on cases we turn off old rim to bottom of extractor groove, and thread stub 5/8 x 24
for premade rim that screws on with locktite.
Here is picture of cases with threaded stub
and premade rims along with 3
different slugs in other cases.Ed

Impressive to say the least! From both ends no doubt when you fire them!

Davy

UF DA!

My shoulder hurts already. Those four cases in the picture looks like full day's shooting!

Perk in Cincinnati

I would want a clarification from BATF&E
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destructive_device
Looks like a DD to me................If its rifled
almost positivly a DD

Not a dd as long as it is shotgun bore.
otherwise there would be millions deer hunters
with rifled shotgun barrels that hunt deer in
shotgun only areas in a bind.
This is as per title 18 GCA-- Sec 921--
Part (a)-- Section 4-- Subsection (B)
Shotgun calibers exempt.
Then Subsection (C) exempts those that they
determine are sporting like NE cases,
Nyati,Trex, JDJ big bores, and others
who have applied for sporting exemtion like
they did on AR for the 550 Magnum and I did for
my 700HE.Ed.

I seriously doubt that the 12ga bore is exempt as a number. (.729 or 18.51mm) Does that mean I can take a 20mm round and neck it down to 18.51 and start blasting as you guys have? I will not be suprised when we find out you have had a visit from the BATF.

jkilroy- No it must be a shotgun style case,
same base as 12 ga to be called a 12 gauge...
IE, a straight case. They have 2.5, 2.75,
3.0, 3.5, and 3.75 inch 12 gauge cases
and chambers. We have our barrels stamped
12 GA 3 3/4. And they fire all lengths of 12 ga cases, and most 12 gauges now are made
stamped with their length.Everybody is shooting all lengths of brass, plastic, paper,aluminum,
12 ga stuff with regular slugs for smooth bore, rifled barrel slugs, high speed saboted loads, and they are all exempted.If it can fire any
12ga case same or shorter, it's exempt..Ed.

When you load a slug in there what are you using as a spacer. You aren't filling that up with powder are you? I might have to start working on one of these monsters, if for nothing else, to show to all of my daughters future boyfriends before they leave the house.

Just so you can get the full "impact" of the above statements, 750gr at 3000FPS is 14,992 lb/ft, or say, 6000 more than a Weatherby 460!

John

jkilroy- johnoder--Actually 7500 more than what
460 delivers over a chrono. As for powder,
it can be loaded with shotgun powder and wads.
Or like Rob and I do filled up with slow rifle
powder. I use WC-860-872- etc surplus, that
is only 4 bucks a lb.

jkilroy- as for the dd discussion, DDs not
illegal per se, as long as they get their 200
bucks per item, and paperwork. And we asked
if shotgun chambers can be lenthened for longer
cases, and they said ok. Lot of guys are going to 3.5 magnum, where smith runs in a lengthening reamer. We asked if cases could be owned without tax if we made our own with lathe, if we
had someone else make brass cases on a lathe,
steel cases, aluminum cases, shotgun or rifle
primer, if we made our own slugs, cast or swaged, they said ok...I am sure there are antis out
there that don't like us having a hobby with
that much freedom, but we are sure law
trumps them.Ed.

And you are shooting this monster from the shoulder? REALLY Big brake on the end? Post some pics of the thing man, I have GOT to see one of these.

jkilroy- No brake just weight, balance and
31 inch long barrel.Here is picture of my
Savage 210, with heavy barrel and weighted
stock. 2nd picture is Rob's nice African style
Borchardt falling block. And both have real
thick recoil pads.Ed

Here is picture a bmg case with rim turned off
and stub threaded for the 12ga size rims
shown in picture. Also shown are 3 cases with different slugs in them.Ed

OK, I admit it. I'm not man enough for that gun.

Hey Ed,
this is a darn good site... don't go scaring em with this big stuff... should warm them up with RNS' 550 mag or our 550express!!

www.weaponsmith.com

Hi Jeff-- Just getting the word out.Once
we convince them that firing the big guns
don't maim or kill they will ok. There
is lotsa interest all over the
net, that's for sure.When I formed
the first 550 Magnum case
for Neal(RNS) I really got you and him in
wildcatting high gear.It is a really
great hobby.Ed.