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1911 frame

orlando cracker

Aluminum
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Location
Floida
How hard would it be to build this 1911 pistol frame out of stainless steel? You would not believe how much these cost and they sell them to guys like myself that want to do my own 1911 pistol build.



1911frame.jpg
 
$250-400 from Brownells, Caspian (cast) to Wilson (forged).

If you've ever really looked one over with an eye for setting up and machining it, and gone over what's available for blueprints (at least what I've seen), you'd think that's dirt cheap.

Probably cost you $250 to get the mag well EDM'd.
 
If you are asking how hard it is. Its some work but worth it to fit a frame and slide. Money wise you are still ahead and when its done, you WILL have a 1911 that out shoots ANYTHING you can buy. Fitting the slide is only part of it. The fitment, filing, stoning, etc of the rest of the parts is the other half. I just went thru 3 builds following my mentors guidance and Iam still a noob :). I am getting it down but when someone says " I know all there is about _______" They are a dumbass. I will tell you all I have learned but ultimately they are worth the trouble. Go for it is my advice.
 
You can build a gun for yourself with no S/N, no license etc. as long as you build for yourself with no initial intention of selling it or otherwise transferring.

If you later decide to transfer, you need to add a serial number or similar unique marking. Yourname001 for example

You don't want to make a habit of transferring home-built firearms though.
 
I always thought a gun with no number was a ticket to the pokey. Don't you have to be licensed as a manufacturer?

A gun with a defaced, altered, or removed serial is not good juju.
I believe an individual can make a gun without a serial #, if it is for personal use and not for profit, resale, etc. Some of the 80% builders may want to chime in on this.
 
About 6 months ago I started looking into building my own 1911. My original plan was to make my own frame. I did quite a bit of research on the legality of it to make sure I wasn't going be in any hot water.

The short answer is yes, you can mfg your own firearm as long as you yourself do the mfg & you never sell it or transfer it.

The long answer:

After a quick google search I came up with this site: had good info but the links to the “ATF” were dead: 80% receiver FAQ

I started my search to find legit info:

Found in the FAQ section on the ATF a mention of making a firearm:

“Q: Is it legal to assemble a firearm from commercially available parts kits that can be purchased via internet or shotgun news?
For your information, per provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, an unlicensed individual may make a “firearm” as defined in the GCA for his own personal use, but not for sale or distribution.
The GCA, 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3), defines the term “firearm” to include the following:
… (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may be readily converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive: (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.
In addition, the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. § 5845(b), defines the term “machinegun” as:
… any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. This term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.
Finally, the GCA, 18 U.S.C. § 922(r), specifically states the following:
It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under the…[GCA]…Section 925(d)(3).as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes ….
Also, 27 C.F.R. § 478.39 states:

1. (a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes ….
2. (b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:
1. (1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or (2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the provisions of [§478.151(formerly 178.151)]; or (3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm.
3. (c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts [tabulated below] are:
1. (1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings, or castings.
2. (2) Barrels.
3. (3) Barrel extensions.
4. (4) Mounting blocks (trunnions).
5. (5) Muzzle attachments.
6. (6) Bolts.
7. (7) Bolt carriers.
8. (8) Operating rods.
9. (9) Gas pistons.
10. (10) Trigger housings.
11. (11) Triggers.
12. (12) Hammers.
13. (13) Sears.
14. (14) Disconnectors.
15. (15) Buttstocks.
16. (16) Pistol grips.
17. (17) Forearms, handguards.
18. (18) Magazine bodies.
19. (19) Followers.
20. (20) Floor plates.

As a result of a 1989 study by the U.S. Treasury Department regarding the importability of certain firearms, an import ban was placed on military-style firearms. This ban included not only military-type firearms, but also extended to firearms with certain features that were considered to be “nonsporting.”
Among such nonsporting features were the ability to accept a detachable magazine; folding/telescoping stocks; separate pistol grips; and the ability to accept a bayonet, flash suppressors, bipods, grenade launchers, and night sights.
Please note that the foreign parts kits that are sold through commercial means are usually cut up machineguns, such as Russian AK-47 types, British Sten types, etc. Generally, an acceptable semiautomatic copy of a machinegun is one that has been significantly redesigned. The receiver must be incapable of accepting the original fire-control components that are designed to permit full automatic fire. The method of operation should employ a closed-bolt firing design that incorporates an inertia-type firing pin within the bolt assembly.
Further, an acceptably redesigned semiautomatic copy of nonsporting firearm must be limited to using less than 10 of the imported parts listed in 27 CFR § 478.39(c). Otherwise, it is considered to be assembled into a nonsporting configuration per the provisions of 18 U.S.C. 925(d)(3) and is thus a violation of § 922(r).
Individuals manufacturing sporting-type firearms for their own use need not hold Federal Firearms Licenses (FFLs). However, we suggest that the manufacturer at least identify the firearm with a serial number as a safeguard in the event that the firearm is lost or stolen. Also, the firearm should be identified as required in 27 CFR 478.92 if it is sold or otherwise lawfully transferred in the future.”

ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Firearms Technology


Although the above info was from the ATF I wanted actual law stating the fact:

Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide:
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf


See Page 177 (A6)

“(A6) Does the GCA prohibit anyone
from making a handgun, shotgun
or rifle?
With certain exceptions a firearm
may be made by a nonlicensee provided
it is not for sale and the maker
is not prohibited from possessing
firearms. However, a person is prohibited
from assembling a nonsporting
semi-automatic rifle or nonsporting
shotgun from imported parts. In addition,
the making of an NFA firearm
requires a tax payment and approval
by ATF. An application to make a
machinegun will not be approved
unless documentation is submitted
showing that the firearm is being
made for a Federal or State agency.
[18 U.S.C. 922(o) and (r), 26 U.S.C.
5822, 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and
479.105]”

So my next question is; What defines a” NFA Firearm” :

Wiki Source: National Firearms Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Makes no mention of pistols. It damn near calls out every other possible gun, but handguns are not on the list.

Next is to find a confirming source for what an “NFA Firearm” is:

ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - National Firearms Act (NFA) - Firearms

Now I live in MA where gun laws are a PITA. 90% of the time I understand gun laws better then the local dealers. This was the case when I called a few dealers asking to purchase a 1911 frame. They claimed that because there are no Frames on the "approved firearms list" they couldn't sell me any. The error on their behalf is that in MA, unlike everywhere else a gun or firearm is defined as an assembly which fires a projectile. Well of course the bare frame isn't going to be on the approved firearms list, its not a firearm (according to MA). You still have to fill out the paperwork for the Feds because they consider the frame (with serial number) a firearm. Thankfully I found a local manufacturer who not only understood the state laws, but was happy to sell frames for $150 bucks.

While we're on the topic of 1911's. If you'd like custom carved 1911 grips let me know. After working on a few 1911 projects I purchased a 3d wood carver. Check out some of my grips here: CUSTOM 1911 GRIPS - Left Field Engineering
 
Plan

How hard would it be to build this 1911 pistol frame out of stainless steel? You would not believe how much these cost and they sell them to guys like myself that want to do my own 1911 pistol build.



1911frame.jpg

Is there a plan, design, drawing with materials list and dimensions available for this ?
:)
 
The plans are in the public domain for over 100 years. You can download them at a number of sites. There is also a very good article about how they were made in the 1940s.
 
Go on Gunbroker you can get them almost any size for under 200 even doublestacks. I have built a couple and were stainless.Also check 1911Builders.com
 
Making a frame is a huge undertaking. It's been done, but in my opinion it's entirely too much custom tooling and cutters for a one-off. If you want to build almost the same thing, but much more easily, you could build a 2011 style pistol. Of course the plastic grip-frame will set you back ~$110, but if you're building a pistol from scratch your build *will* cost more than a factory gun in the end. Nothing wrong with that, just don't get into it for the wrong reasons.

GsT
 
To me if someone thinks a 1911 frame is overpriced they must really think a good quality 1911 is overpriced. People think I charge too much for my work but they would never pay for a CNC mill or lathe, way way way too expensive!
People who make things that are manufactured using hard earned skills and multiple machine tool loans don't tend to think of manufactured items that way, with a few exceptions like Korth.
 
Sarco has 1911 frame castings for double stack frames in a variety of styles. They sell Para Ordinance frames as well. Parts to complete are available as kits or individually. I built a 1911 from one of the singlestack paperweight frames and a slide raw casting several years ago. It turned out well.

1911 Parts, Easton, PA - Sarco, Inc.
 








 
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