Latest rumor

I was told today that our Commander in the White house made a several million dollar contract with a Chinese company for M-4 rifles to be issue to the Border Patrol and another Federal agency.

I have not confirmed this anywhere so this is as much of an inquiry as anything.

IF it is indeed true I'd like to know just how we are supposedly going to cure ourselves of this economic yeast infection when our own government is farming out work to the lowest bidder?

Perhaps there in lies the problem. IF WE can't produce it as cheap maybe its time to take a more proactive approach and review the laws on the books regarding taxes, EPA, Labor, etc.

A small business will do just about anything to reduce overhead expenses. Perhaps Uncle Sugar should look at ways of reducing the costs associated with running a company as well.

Again, if this is a BS rumor then I apologize for bringing it up (sorta) Irregardless I think the point I'm trying to make still has some merit.

Sorry, but I find that ridiculously difficult to believe. Source? Link? Proof? Do you believe everything anyone tells you? Who was this mystery figure that provided the "information?"

It sort of has the whiff of an April Fools joke about it.

Saying that, a few tens of thousands of Taiwanese M14s onto the civillian market, to replace the ones the Clinton administration had destroyed at the US tax payer's expense. Now that would make sense

Sounds like April fools stuff to me. There's enough stuff flying around without adding to it. Way too many lobbyists to let that go by and happen !

Wellz, considering it came from a trusted friend who happens to own a very large ammunition manufacturing plant during the middle of a contract negotiation I kinda took it for more than April fools.

It's why I'm asking, I didn't say I believed it, I didn't say I was endorsing it.

Yeesh. sorry for asking a question.

I did some searching and Colt lost the contract for the M4 last July so it is likely that there will be a contract out to supply more.
I couldn't find anything regarding any new contract and who the supplier would be.
Seems to be a rumor but it would not be much of a surprise the way things have been going.

If Colt has lost the contract. I wonder if any disgruntled Colt employees would be tempted to "liberate" some scans of the blueprints...

Colt M4 contract

If Colt lost the M4 contract, it most likely would go to FN in Columbia South Carolina. FN took over the M16A2 and M16A4 contract many years ago. However Colt still owns the Technical Data Package for the M16A2 and M16A4. If they lost the M4 contract they would still own thr TDP for it.

Colt did not lose the contract, in fact they have several contracts, and Colt is running at high production.

What many mistake for "Colt losing the contract" (there is more than one)is Colt's status as sole source contractor for the M4 for the US Government has expired. That simply means that now other companies may bid to produce the M4, whereas before only Colt could make it.

Like L said, Colt owns the TDP and anyone who produces the M4 will pay a license for use of the data as on the M16 weapons.

Re China guns, hope that's not true.
There is plenty of small arms production capability available right here in the US and I sure hope our brothers in the Border Patrol and Federal LE get high quality firearms, not reverse engineered garbage made from pot metal.

Years ago the US had ammo manufactured with no head stamp for use in South America by our "friends". Who knows

A lot of Colt's M-4 production is made in Canada.

I saw something some where on the net about this, but it wasn't China. It was a European country that I saw mentioned...I just don't recall which one or where I saw it. This will drive me crazy trying to find it!

One of the reasons so many companies now produce AR's is that they may now compete for the governments business.

I hope it aint so.
I like the Colt M-4 I carry.
Uniforms were made in Mexico for a few years but a lot of complaining put that to an end.

Colt45 said:

Re China guns, hope that's not true.
There is plenty of small arms production capability available right here in the US and I sure hope our brothers in the Border Patrol and Federal LE get high quality firearms, not reverse engineered garbage made from pot metal.

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there is nothing wrong with Chinese guns and their steel is just as good as ours.

the M14-type receivers made in China are metallurgically equal to the American product. the norinco 1911 is very well regarded as a gun to build upon.

nobody laughs at the Chinese-made SKS or AK.

China sells plenty of cheap crap, but their firearms are most certainly not included in that.

That being said, all of our military hardware should be sourced and made here in the USA.

+1 on import steel.

In addition to gun work I run a machine shop and I whittle on a number of import castings made in China and Korea.

I have no issues with any of them. Stable, heat treat comes out right, and the finishes are great. CST is happy, I'm happy, life goes on.

Chinese M14 clones are very hit and miss regarding quality of manufacture and heat treat, it's very common to have the receiver re-heat treated and most of the internal parts replaced with USGI parts. Chinese AKs are the bottom of the barrel and in my loop the definition of cheap crap though definitely a step above Lorcin.

The Norinco 1911s are decent though a bit rough but no longer imported and there are vastly superior options available made right here in the US. Many pistolsmiths refuse to work on them because of their country of origin. I prefer made in USA on my 1911, but hey whatever floats your boat.

Colt45 said:

Chinese M14 clones are very hit and miss regarding quality of manufacture and heat treat, it's very common to have the receiver re-heat treated and most of the internal parts replaced with USGI parts.

Click to expand...

only the early bolts and hammers were suspect. otherwise they are good to go.

Chinese AKs are the bottom of the barrel and in my loop the definition of cheap crap though definitely a step above Lorcin.

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chinese AK's have thicker receivers than others (except yugoslavian). their bores are faultlessy chrome lined. they are smooth operating and reliable. there is no way they are "bottom of the barrel." The "bottom" of the foreign-made-AK-available-in-the-US barrel would be a Romanian, late-80's G kit or a WUM, SAR or CUGIR with a canted rfront sight. chinese AK's are very well regarded.

The Norinco 1911s ... there are vastly superior options available made right here in the US.

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not military-quality drop-forged steel frames, for anywhere near the money.

"...because of their country of origin."

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that probably has more to do with it than anything else.

I understand and agree with the "Buy American" idea, but keeping jobs in America has nothing to do with the actual quality of Chinese firearms.

Hey Delloro
It's not my intent to cause hard feelings but there are some facts I feel you are unaware of or overlooking.

1- Chinese M14 barrels often have headspace issues and many, if not most of the Polytech and Norincos that work well, have had the barrel and bolt replaced with USGI to get them to work reliably and safely.
2- Receivers from Norinco and Polytech while sometimes well/properly machined, vary wildly in hardness from RC30-60 (too soft to too hard) and often have serious dimensional issues including problems related to the bolt and its locking lug helix in the receiver.
3- The bolts are made from the wrong material and not hardened correctly, often have excessive headspace and the locking lugs are too narrow. The bolt body is too long, which prevents the firing pin from retracting- a serious safety issue.
4- The hammers (and often other parts in the trigger group) are too soft, this is a serious safety issue which can lead to the rifle firing full auto.
5- Bad bolts, hammers, op rods, bad geometry in the receiver- all important to function and safety and unacceptable in any firearm, especially one headed into harm's way.

These are reasons I do not think highly of those guns- the metallurgy is suspect and there are serious safety issues. I'm not making this up and I'm not the only one who has observed this over a long period of time.

There are plenty of GI or better quality 1911 frames and slides available from a number of sources- made in USA costs more for a number of reasons, but really not that much more. Much higher quality and fit/finish is available from Springfield (Brazil and USA), Colt and others.

I just don't find Chinese guns all that desirable and neither do my friends in LE, the quality and consistency is not there compared to firearms made in almost any Western nation. I am glad we can agree our military hardware should be made in USA- in fact, it is required by law that military firearms be produced here. That is why SIG, Beretta, Colt, FN, Knight's, Remington and others have factories in the US. The firearms mentioned by Mr LongRiflesInc would be for Federal Law Enforcement and the Border Patrol, to the best of my knowledge their aquisitioins are not bound by the Berry Amendment that covers military goods- that would lend some credence to the rumor about a Chinese gun contract.

Enjoy your Norincos and Polytechs, like I said- "whatever floats your boat", or in this case, "trips your trigger".

Remember when Japan sole only gimcracks, right after the war. It has been 20 years since the chink M14ines, but in all honesty I haven't bought anything Chinese lately.