New Guy

Hello to all I am a new member and don't know much about gunsmith work, but I just started my master course with AGI. I would like to know about the different lathes and tools used and which items most members use or prefer.
I will need alot of advice from all thank you.

AGI - American Gunsmithing Institute.

Looks like an on line program to me.

I have no problem with your taking advantage of any source of training you can find, but the "masters" title seems a bit inflated. If you are starting the "masters" course and are not farmilear with lathes or other tools used for most basic gunsmithing, it should tell you something about the quality of training your paying for.

If you want to learn about lathes, go to a brick and morter trade school with a machine shop program. They will teach you what you need to know about operating machine tools safely. This is important becasue most gunsmiths run solo and tools that cut metal cut you up fast.

Before jumping in whole hog, you need to also look into the legal and licenceing requirements, local, state and federal. The BATFE wants a bit more than watching a few videos and sleeping in a Holiday Inn Express before you hang out your gunsmithing shingle. The licences are not cheep and you want to give serious consideration to where you locate your business. An FFL gives the BATFE some priviliges regarding searches. It also creates a lot of paperwork for you do deal with.

As to what features to look for in a lathe indended for GS work, this forum has several threads that beat that subject to death. Use the search function at the top of the page and you will find them. Licenceing requirements are also discussed on a regular basis.

The other piece of advice is don't get over confident in your abilities, error on the conservitive side.

Thanks for the advice, I guess I explained my intentions wrong. I have to start this certification which is 28 months long at the beginner level and you progress over the 28 months to what they call master gunsmith. I am a FFL holder and a certified Law Enforcement Armorer. I am some what familiar with weapons, but I want to increase my skills in the area of gunsmithing and being able to offer more than what I am qualified to do at this time. I don't know a thing about being a gunsmith other than I enjoy working on weapons and there is a need for them at least from my research. I will for sure take my time with this adventure and I hope it works out.

Just curious, what does a certified law enforcement armorer do? Do you work for a police force, local law enforcement, military?

Bernard

I work on some military weapons mainly pistols and shotguns. Most departments have their own armorer, so I usualy work on individual weapons. Its a glorified certification that just adds a crudential for my company.

As to what tooling, it really depends on the work you are going to do. Pistols require some different tools than rifles or shotguns. Also the type or class of said guns. Rem 870s 11-87, Mossbergs ect, would require different tools that say english high grade shotguns (double barrel). You might also look into NRA course. They are summer courses at various colleges over the summer. I'd probably get a Brownells catalog. Look it over as far as tools. Then ask here as to the worth of that tool or cheaper alturnatives. Also if you can make your own.
A lathe and or mill is nice, but not essential. Also, I think you could do good work with a smaller lathe and mill, than those doing barrel work. I'd also set up a good work bench. 3 X 4, a good vise, the vise jaw height about the height of your elbow. Good maple top. Place it against the wall or in a corner. Vise on corner not against the wall or corner.
For the initial work, get a good set of screw drivers, parralel ground. See Brownells. Also punches. Files, ball peen or cross peen hammer. Brass hammer. Hacksaw. I like a hacksaw with a straight handle. Hard to find though.
I'd also get a US Gunpart catalog. Some decent parts explosions there. Other books with dissasembly takedown instructions.
I also agree with the 'masters' program. Masters, Star, phenom ect. are so overused. I am beginning to think Masters is the new term for Hack.
Tom

I have pistol and ar15 punches all the hammers, dont have any files or screw drivers etc. I do not have any idea what type or brand to get. I do have a dealer account with brownells. As far as a lathe I would consider used but do not have any clue there either. I am afraid to ask to many questions due to seeing other posts where other members have unloaded on others about their views on what to buy and where to buy. As to schooling at AGI I was very happy with their certification of the law enforcement armorer's course, it was self pace and every weapon had a complete dvd and history not to mention I can reference back to each weapon at any time with the instuctional dvd. The gunsmith program is set up the same way. I am sure others will disagree but it fits my needs at this time. Thank you Tom for your advice and please don't stop.

Victor

Hi Victor,
i think you might have a hard time getting the kind of answer that you expect. I will try to explain without writing a book.

a delivery service can use anything from a bicycle to a 747. It depends upon their market and business model, and funds.

As a "gunsmith", you need to decide what you are going to go after for work.

Some guys design and built parts for firearms. Some guys put them together. Others know how to modify them to shoot better, some guys fix them when they break.

At the end of the day they all used tools. And the ones they used were based on the job, and how much they wanted to spend on their tools.

Where I am going is that instead of trying to figure what type of a lathe or mill to use for working on firearms, learn how to use those tools, and then decide if you want to apply them your firearms work. They are basically another tool in your tool box.

I would suggest taking some classes at a local community college.

even if you receive some really good advise on some great equipment models, if you have no experience using it or something similar, you will not be able to tell if the particular one you look at to purchase is in great shape or a worn out piece of junk.

I hope this helps.

How to get started in Gunsmithing...

First learn "How to File"...from that, all other trade abilities will follow.
The Community trade courses to familiarize yourself with the use of a lathe, Mill, Drills, etc at the very basic level, including Thread cutting, dividing, drilling and tapping, and the Maths behind all these things.
All the "Gun Familiarity" in the world is of no use if you can't make a repair piece properly, or tap a hole in hard metal.

AS an example, a friend of mine ( our friendship started over a Hand-built Hotchkiss MG) started his working life with a traditional Fitter and Turner/Tool and Die maker apprenticeship...in the days when one spent a couple of years learning how to do things with a file ( and very little else).
Just before he turned 60 ( yes, 60) he decided he liked the look of the M1909 Hotchkiss Portative, as used by his great-Uncle in the Great War (Palestine, 1917)...He got a 1/4 scale drawing ( used by Army Armourers to ID parts) some photographs of an example in the Infantry Musem, and a few measurements with a set of calipers on said original. Some 350 hours later for the Cavalry Model, and about 250 for the Tank model, he now has TWO, Replica ( non firing) Hotchkiss Mark I guns, which one can't tell from the originals, unless you try to pull the cocking handle---it is solid.

And we developed the stamping dies to make the 30 round strip for the guns as well...and they work in real Hotchkiss-type guns (Japanese Nambu....).

The clincher is that he built these two guns with a File/s, a small bench top drill press ( your $99 special), and a borrowed Lathe for the round barrel fins etc.
Shows that learning to "File" well can get you anywhere. ( look at the Gunsmiths of the Khyber Pass-Northwest Frontier of Pakistan....

SO, get those basics under your belt, then Read-Read-Read....and practice on scrap steel, brass, aluminium, etc, and on "Old Guns" ( those ruined Bubbas which have no collectibilty left because they have been butchered by idiots who wanted to "Improve" a Military rifle.

Patience and a steady hand and eye will get you a long way.

From a self-taught "Gun Wrangler" of the Movies...I still get my friend to do the complicated bits...( Like new trigger-guards for MG08/15).

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics Film Ordnance Services
Brisbane Australia.

allamerican said:

I have pistol and ar15 punches all the hammers, dont have any files or screw drivers etc. I do not have any idea what type or brand to get. I do have a dealer account with brownells. As far as a lathe I would consider used but do not have any clue there either. I am afraid to ask to many questions due to seeing other posts where other members have unloaded on others about their views on what to buy and where to buy. As to schooling at AGI I was very happy with their certification of the law enforcement armorer's course, it was self pace and every weapon had a complete dvd and history not to mention I can reference back to each weapon at any time with the instuctional dvd. The gunsmith program is set up the same way. I am sure others will disagree but it fits my needs at this time. Thank you Tom for your advice and please don't stop.

Victor

Click to expand...

I haven't looked at the Brownells catalog in a while. I think "Grace" is a manufacture of screwdrivers in there. They are fixed or non-interchangable bits. The hardware store types are tapered, and slip out of screws. You may need to grind bought or made screw drivers for particular screws. I think they might be called hollow ground too.
Since it seems you are more pistol oriented, look at the tools that are specifically for Colt .45s. Now if you just worked on Glocks, then they would be useless. Or at best expensive paper weights. Its an over exageration, but you get my point. I went to Trinidad State for gunsmithing. On of the courses, we made basically a slam hammer and a cutter for the Win 1300 shotguns. Someone said they never used it. I didn't do the best effort on my parts. The first year I worked as a gunsmith, I probably needed those tools a dozen times.
Anotner example is a steady rest for a lathe. I worked as a machinist for 10 years. I think I needed a steady rest about 5 times. Others will use a steady rest 5 times a day or week.
Tom

ahall said:

AGI - American Gunsmithing Institute.

Looks like an on line program to me.

I have no problem with your taking advantage of any source of training you can find, but the "masters" title seems a bit inflated. If you are starting the "masters" course and are not farmilear with lathes or other tools used for most basic gunsmithing, it should tell you something about the quality of training your paying for.

If you want to learn about lathes, go to a brick and morter trade school with a machine shop program. They will teach you what you need to know about operating machine tools safely. This is important becasue most gunsmiths run solo and tools that cut metal cut you up fast.

Before jumping in whole hog, you need to also look into the legal and licenceing requirements, local, state and federal. The BATFE wants a bit more than watching a few videos and sleeping in a Holiday Inn Express before you hang out your gunsmithing shingle. The licences are not cheep and you want to give serious consideration to where you locate your business. An FFL gives the BATFE some priviliges regarding searches. It also creates a lot of paperwork for you do deal with.

As to what features to look for in a lathe indended for GS work, this forum has several threads that beat that subject to death. Use the search function at the top of the page and you will find them. Licenceing requirements are also discussed on a regular basis.

The other piece of advice is don't get over confident in your abilities, error on the conservitive side.

Click to expand...

The ATF does not care one bit what your education or the lack therof is. What they care about is that you are running a business to earn money, and that you are in compliance with all other federal, state, and local laws, including zoning.

Other than that you pay apply and pay your money, they come out and explain a few things to you and ensure you understand some stuff, then you get a license. Getting the license to mfg machine guns and all other kinds of firearms and or ammo is THAT simple.....they never ask if you know how to do the work.

Victor, I've been gunsmithing since 1978 and still make/buy new tools and equipment. 90% of my business is general repair with about 10% custom work. Like others said, you will have to decide what area you want to specialize in or do you want to do general work. What you decide will determine the tools needed.
Of course, going to a school is the best, but don't be afraid of AGI, learning is learning. It is more about what you put into it than the school, Read, study, Practice,seek advise of others.
Bobby

BobbyBailey said:

Victor, I've been gunsmithing since 1978 and still make/buy new tools and equipment. 90% of my business is general repair with about 10% custom work. Like others said, you will have to decide what area you want to specialize in or do you want to do general work. What you decide will determine the tools needed.
Of course, going to a school is the best, but don't be afraid of AGI, learning is learning. It is more about what you put into it than the school, Read, study, Practice,seek advise of others.
Bobby

Click to expand...

To an extent some people have it others don't. I've always heard it as 'you have the hands'. It didn't matter if it was woodworking, auto repair or gunsmithing. To that extent, you have to be honest and factual with yourself. As one of the posters said, don't get to cocky. I'd probably also pick up some books on areas or facets of gunsmithing you are interested in.
Since i think you are going to deal with Rem 870s and other pump and auto shotguns, then you will need a very long and large screw driver to take off the butt stocks. You might look through Brownells. I think they make a specialty one.
Also, some type of welding, brazing soldiering outfit. A propane torch might get you by for soft soldiering and maybe silver soldiering. I did some brazing with one, but ittakes a long time. I have used one of the little oxy-acetelene outifts, not the micro. I didn't think the torch head kept constant. Always adjusting it. I couldn't weld very well with it. Don't know if I am any good otherwise. But, some of the torch sets I used were badly abused. The welders would take the tip of the torch and strike them on the weld table to clean them.
Tom