Loctite 609 is a very good bonding agent for installing 5/16" dia. liners in any kind of 22 RF barrel. I have done about 15 barrels in several different guns.
I use a piloted 8mm drill to open up the bores and then push in the liner vertically while keeping a puddle of 609 at the entry point. It has a low viscosity and capillary action will insure the available space will be filled with liquid. A few hours of cure time and you are ready to finish the machining. Much easier than soldering or epoxy and clean up is a snap.
Actually, almost any grade of anaerobic thread locker will work in this application because of the large surface area. However, Loctite 609 is specifically formulated for bonding cylindrical parts. Just be sure the bores and liners are clean before starting.
For the RGG Gatling gun, I used 1/2" OD x .095" wall DOM steel tubing for the barrels with Brownells' liners. It worked out very well. After the barrels were crowned, you could not see the demarcation between the tubing and liner.
Have you completed and shot your gun yet? If so, how did the barrels do?
I am asking because I read on the RGG site where the barrels got to hot on the Gatling guns that they only reccomend solder for the liners. I am getting ready to build one and am just looking for info and feedback from those who have made them. Any expereince firing your would be greatly appreciated! I will probably just use barrels instead of liners, but do what to know what my options are
I bought the RG-G plans back in '02 and still have not started my Gatling gun. I am going to order the D&E plans and look at them side by side and then figure out which way I want to go.
On the caliber issue, the guy who made the D&E model said that it was easy to make them a .22LR and folks have done that with his plans
I have the RGG plans and a pile of materials waiting for the time when I can get out into the garage without freezing my butt off.
Soldering in a liner is not that hard. Having an extra set of hands is nice though. Uncle played a torch on the barrel and I did the same on the liner.
Brownells has a pdf on how to do it.
The first try at relining a Visible Loader was a success for me. Solder is removable too.
BTW, loctite is pretty impressive, I don't want to knock it for lower temp use. I put some red on a nut and bolt that where just assembled loose and a week later it put up some serious resistance to my attempt to unscrew it. How it holds up temperatures from sustained firing (Yeah Baby) is another thing though.
I was not a convert to adhesives until last year. I will freely admit that I am old fashioned and conservitive in my ways. But Loc-Tite's Black Max is an incredible substance!!! It does not come close to replacing my beloved solder in every application, but when used appropriately that stuff is the bomb!
If you have not tried Black Max yet, I can heartily reccomend it.
BTW-if it is not too personal of a question, about how much is the material for the gun? With the current metal prices, i am afraid to hear it.
Also, is there a material take off list for the RGG plans where all required materials and quanitites are listed on one page? I have been looking through my plans this week and did not see an MTO.
My RGG gun in 22LR has been complete for 3 years and the Loctited barrels have been excellent in every way. BTW it takes about 500° F to break down the bond. You could not get your barrels that hot if you wanted to by shooting it. You cannot reload or crank it fast enough to do that
I'll look into it. Does it have a long shelf life?
Originally Posted by Marc_Stokeld
Well, so far I have spent 400 bucks with www.metalexpress.com and have just about all the metal except for the carriage.
Originally Posted by Marc_Stokeld
If you use an online supplier, play with the lengths. They embed the cut charge into the prices of materials and often a few feet of something is near the same price as the exact length you need. All bets off on brass
When I get to the carriage, I'm thinking of using steel instead of brass for the hubs and tires.
Brownels got 166.16 for the liners (I get a ffl discount for having an CR FFL), and McMasters managed to snag 175.00 off of me. Those two gears are 40 bucks a pop.
I just went though the descriptions pages and started jotting down a buy list. Based on what stock you have on hand your stock list will vary. Also, depending on the item, machining down something larger may be an option.
Originally Posted by Marc_Stokeld
I also bought the cd with the graphics. I'm pretty good at reading prints but having views of the details is very helpful.
Black Max has a good shelf life. It is #380. I would eb careful on liners though-the tighter the fit, the faster it sets up. I had soem very close fitting barrel bands and had trouble getting them all the way on before it set up. Of course a sloppier fit would have helped. If you have tight fitting liners, then it might be hard to push them in a full 12".
Thanks for the info on the loctite product. Strange thing happened last night, while figuring out what I have spent so far on materials, I saw that metalexpress had credited my account for 150.00 . That takes the metal expendature down to 250.00 so far. I called them and they claim the refund was intended.
I guess I'll order the needle bearings now
I just recently came across the RGG plans that a friend at work bought several years ago. We hope to make at least 3 or 4 of these little gatling guns. (One as a gift for the boss, for letting us use the machines to make them).
Does anyone have any links to pictures of the finished or partly finished RGG gatling guns, other than the ones on the RGG site? It's hard to judge the scale of this thing.
Last edited by dogon1013; 04-18-2008 at 08:55 PM.
PS I have drawn most of the RGG gatling gun up in 3D, Here are some screenshots.
I'll add more pictures to this album later.
got started on cutting some parts. I re-designed the whole gun based on the RGG prints, but easier to manufacture (for me at least). Lots of laser cut parts, includeing the Box cam. which I video'd being cut here:
dogon1013 - Those 3D models look great. I wish that RGG would offer 3D model files to purchase on top of the plans. I bought the CD with 3D images that they offer but it would be nice to be able to rotate, pan, zoom and turn layers on and off myself to get specific views of the gun as I may need.
I just received my set of RGG plans a few weeks ago and have started to assemble materials and order various hardware along with cutters for the build. Will be a nice project for next winter. The brass needed will be the hardest on the wallet.
Been also going over the drawings and figuring out machining proceedures for some of the parts. I am making a simple jig to hold the bolt for the machining of the extractor slot. Since there are 10 bolts to make, a jig seemed to be an obvious solution.
I have been thinking of getting the slot in the cam-box cut by CNC but need to create a 3D model of the cam-box first. Has anyone got a 3D model of the cam-box that they care to share?
Hi guys, always wanted one of these, don't have the means or skillset quite yet. How difficult do you think it is to build? What about making the gun shoot .17 hmr, .22 mag length with the smaller necked round? Would you think this is possible or would require reengineering the rear of the gun? Also, instead of stick, round or the cylinder mag, why not a vibrating feeder? All you would do is dump more and more ammo into the hopper and shoot! Comments, ideas or cirticism welcome, more of your opinions as to the feasibility of this working. Thanks as always for sharing your knowledge on this and other forums, my hat is off to you all.
Take care, Jon.
This is good to hear with regard to barrel length. I was actually given a set of R&G prints, with quite a bit of brass stock and about 50% of the parts already machined. The only thing stopping me from starting the project was my uncertainty with how they could use under 16" barrels. By chance you don't know where I could find this provision for gattling guns on atf's website do you?
Originally Posted by mixdenny
There are a few considerations to making a 22mag/ 17 cal version of the gattlin.
It will take a lot of modification to function. The stroke of the bolts has to increase to chamber and eject the longer shell, that changes the cams, reciever and quite a few other parts. The extractors and all feed devices will have to be modified for the larger diameter cartrage. The change in length will make the cams steeper and the gun may not function smoothly unless you increase the diameter of the recever to compensate. You wont know on that one untill you try it.
Another consideration is that you are increasing the pressure of the cartrage and the chamber diameter. The gatlin plans you have reverenced are for 22 short or long rifle, and the barrels are fairly small in diameter. You will need to check the stresses in the barrel and all locking components before undertaking this kind of change.
The 22 mag is a longer cartrage, so it will have more of a tendency to lean forward and bind. Feeding may be an issue for some magizine designs.
Another consideration with a gatlin is that you have to feed it, or its not much fun. None of the rounds you sugested are reloadable, and both are expensive compared to 22RF. Its hard to beat the price of 22RF if you just want to have fun. You will get a lot more bangs for you buck and the RG&G plans are proven out in that size. The D&G plans are also nice, and can be modified to take 22RF with a little work.
Years ago I modeled the D&G plans in solid edge and drew up the modifications to go to 22 RF. Never did the calcualtions for pressure differences thought. Never built it either.
Ahall, thanks, I thought it might really complicate things. I like the .17 hmr for it's flat shooting and gatling gun in that caliber would be rather novel. Did you have any thoughts on the vibratory feed for rounds? Anyone have an idea if this would work? Thanks, take care, Jon.
Regarding barrel length, simply write to the BATFE main office.
They will send you a written response to any question you ask.
Years ago I wrote them on barrel length question and got back a very nice letter explaining there position that gatlins were neither rifles or pistols and the length restrictions did not apply.
I asked about the legality of gatlins (any other weapon, automatic, etc.) just so I had a letter to show bubba with a badge should the need arise.
I also asked about magizine options because the assalt weapon magazine restrictions were in effect. They said there was nothing that could be done to get around the "magazine" clause, but the law said nothing about hoppers and a Bruce feed was considered a hopper. I think they even gave me the patent number to look at.
In any case I got three letters sent to me from the BATFE that answerd my legal questions, and it cost me a stamp. My experiance is that they are not the jack booted thugs many folks make them out to be.
The website will give you the address.
It did take about three months to get the letters.
The RG&G is easily modified to use 16" barrels and looks fine in the extended length. Only the barrels, frame and support rod in the center of the barrel cluster have to change for the gun to function. So dont let that stop you. Just pay attention to how the weight change affects the pivot point on the frame.
ATF considers these a firearm. It is not a pistol or a rifle since it is not intended to be fired from the shoulder or from the hand. With the firearms classification barrel length is not an issue. They usually want the gun bolted to the carriage and not easily removable, this was/is the case for the semi auto Tippman 1919A4 guns.
Speedymetals.com has 4" brass for about $46 per inch.