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Thread: .22lr How to thread for moderator/silencer

  1. #1
    ivanthehunter is offline Plastic
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    Default .22lr How to thread for moderator/silencer

    Hi there lads This is my first post here so take it easy on this fool:rolleyes:
    I want to thread my .22 rifle for a silencer but i dont have a clue where to start.
    1/ Is it possible to do this at home with a hand operated tap and die set?
    2/ should i leave it to the pro's or is it a relatively easy task for a complete novice?
    3/What sort of equipment would the expert diy man use for this job and how much would that typically cost?

    as i said lads i new to this thing. so go easy..
    I would like to introduce myself, my name is Robert and I'm from Ireland
    i work as a civil engineer on construction sites...
    the interest in gun smithing comes form a INTERNET search for companies that still make the 220swift, they are few and far between.. Any way thats me..
    Thanks for reading, i look forward to hearing the answer

  2. #2
    eKretz is offline Titanium
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    Some folks on this board from the U.S. may be a bit reluctant to answer as silencers are illegal here without special licensing/tax stamp. However, information isn't illegal, and in the U.K. silencers are perfectly legal, so I don't have a prob giving advice. Do NOT attempt to thread your barrel for a moderator or silencer unless you have a lathe. You will never get it aligned properly. The silencer must be aligned very nearly parallel with the bore of your barrel or you will get baffle/endcap strikes, which will instantly destroy your silencer, and perhaps the end of your barrel. Have a gunsmith do this or do it in a lathe if you know what you're doing to keep it aligned as perfectly straight as possible.

  3. #3
    Paul F is offline Aluminum
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    I would mostly go along with what eKretz said...

    I wouldn't say it's IMPOSSIBLE to do with a die by hand, but getting satisfctory results would be extremely unlikely! Heavy emphasis on extremely!

    I don't know what Irelands laws are like regarding the modification of firearms by individuals, but if it's legal, it wouldn't take a "gunsmith". A competant individual ("model engineer", or as we say in north america "home shop machinist", or professional machine shop) could do that sort of threading on a lathe.

    The important thing is that the person doing the threading knows;
    1- the legality of what he's doing for you. I have no idea.
    2- know exactly what thread size is needed (knows the size of the supressor internal thread) and
    3- knows that the concentricity to the BORE, and alignment with the BORE are the important dimensions.

    Hope this helps!
    Paul F.

    PS; Your being allowed supressors makes me jelous!

  4. #4
    ivanthehunter is offline Plastic
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    as far a suppressor law goes here any person can have a firearm which is threaded for a silencer or they can thread it them selfs, but a person still needs a permit to own a silencer. The only gray area in this law is the .22 rimfires. Twenty years ago (i think a good few years ago??? 20????) or so a person could have a silencer without a permit, so some gunshops are giving them out without a permit and they tell the shooter just to say that its an old one that i/you got from your father etc...
    As the new law stands you now need the consent of the top man in the local police station for silencers for rimfire and you have to apply to a government body now for the center fire silencers.
    Ireland's government believes that silencers allow weapons to be fired in silence fools...
    Anyway whats the law on making adjustments to weapons over in the states?
    trevj likes this.

  5. #5
    abarnsley is offline Titanium
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    Default Should be done on a lathe

    Hand die just won't be straight enough.

    For someone with a 12 inch lathe, an hour at shop rate.. should be Max you pay.

    Be sure to protect barrel finish with Brass shims (or such), where chuck jaws contact barrel .

    In US that sort of work falls under Gunsmithing as its for pay, and a License is required. Can do it yourself legally..

    Have hunted in Germany quite a bit, and used to know some of the European Gun and Hunting laws...

  6. #6
    ANeat is offline Plastic
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivanthehunter View Post
    Anyway whats the law on making adjustments to weapons over in the states?

    You can do any type of threading you want to the barrel legally. The permits are required to own the suppressor and the supressor will have a serial number and it will be registered to the person.


    For example I can purchase the permits and go thru the process of getting a suppressor.

    When I get the suppressor I can srew it onto whatever weapon I see fit. If I have say a 10/22 rifle I can remove the barrel and take it to anyone and have it threaded if need be.
    The only part of the gun where an FFL holding gunsmith is required is if the gunsmith is in posession of the reciever.

    Say I have a Ruger markII pistol that I want threaded for the same suppressor. The barrel is not easily removed from the reciever so If I needed to take it to someone an FFL holding gunsmith would be the wise choice.

    Many machinists I know will not touch a gun or even a part of a gun. Really to many laws to keep up with for a small ammount of work. No need to worry about if they are or are not.breaking law. If there doing a lot of gun work then they just get the FFL and be done with it.

  7. #7
    Alpacca Fortyfive is offline Stainless
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    Hi Robert,

    I'm in Carlow but my guns are still in England.
    Parker_Hale moderators came with destructions for threading in the box.

    For a PH, a cheap skate will use the face of the shoulder at the end of the threading as the surface that aligns the silencer straight to the bore.

    A really top notch job will leave a small register between the thread and the shoulder ,that the moderator screws over with slight tension.

    I've had "gunsmiths" do threading which was abysmal, with tears in the thread. #

    The best threading i ever had done was by a guy who made hydraulic rams: properly rounded thread form, register and almost mirror finish on cut surfaces (excuse the orgasm!). Sadly he went out of business shortly afterwards.

    A good hobbyist might be the best person to do the job, if you can find one. As they will have the time to clock the bore just right at both ends, and be able to take the time to get things perfect, rather than ruin your crown by ramming a scabby centre into it, then chewing the threads....

    Hope this helps

    Keith

    PS, there was a South African guy doing gate security on Sisk's Site at Central Park development, leopardstown who is a gunsmith and F class coach....

    I've been trying to track him down again

  8. #8
    abarnsley is offline Titanium
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    Default Alpaca

    As a FFL gunsmith, I have seen full scale of good to bad work by others...

    Done more than 50 or so Muzzle threading jobs and all had acceptable threads..

    Of course I could cut better threads in High School than the other students
    Maybe because I hand stoned threading tool to get it sharp and smooth, instead of fresh off the grinder like the others....

    Keep me away from a piece of wood tho I save that for the folks that don't thread very well

    Some barrel steels seem to be made of bubble gum, and as I only get one shot at it...

    Would be nice to have a practice piece of matching steel for every job, to fine tune. But that is not the life of a gunsmith..

    A proper post threading, Muzzle Crown is part of the job...

  9. #9
    Malc-Y is offline Aluminum
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    About 8 years ago I bought a new Ruger 10/22 rifle and this was threaded 1/2" unf at the factory for fitting a sound moderator. I presume that Ruger only do this on export rifles. I don't use a moderator so made a threaded bush to screw onto the barrel thread to protect it, I knurled it on the outside to make fitting and removing it easy.

    As moderators or silencers are illegal in the USA, why do they have American screw threads, 1/2" unf and not an Imperial thread ?

    Malc.

  10. #10
    MilGunsmith's Avatar
    MilGunsmith is offline Hot Rolled
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    1/2-28 UNF is the standard thread on most 5.56mm(.223) military flash suppresors, muzzle brakes, and sound suppressors.

  11. #11
    mrbruce is offline Aluminum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malc-Y View Post
    About 8 years ago I bought a new Ruger 10/22 rifle and this was threaded 1/2" unf at the factory for fitting a sound moderator. I presume that Ruger only do this on export rifles. I don't use a moderator so made a threaded bush to screw onto the barrel thread to protect it, I knurled it on the outside to make fitting and removing it easy.

    As moderators or silencers are illegal in the USA, why do they have American screw threads, 1/2" unf and not an Imperial thread ?

    Malc.
    As long as you have the required paper work they are not illegal in a lot of states.
    NY isn't one of them sad to say....

  12. #12
    ThomD is offline Aluminum
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    "As long as you have the required paper work they are not illegal in a lot of states.
    NY isn't one of them sad to say...."

    Right but for the US the paperwork is extensive and it probably opens you up to severe concequences if anything gets muddled somehow, like that guy who is currently getting reamed over his "auto" firing AR 15. I'm never all that interested in owning the kind of firearm that makes the cops think they can kick down your door and shoot your dog or wife just for startes.

    It's one of those open assumptions that the US at least amoung G8 type nations has the easiest/best foirearms laws, but it isn't true on every point (just many). I was surprised when I lived outside Dublin to go into a sporting shop there and ask for a silencer and immediately get taken to the back to buy one for a firearm. I was only looking for the air rifle type, and had no idea that silencers were legal ('75 ish). Over here it's all about crime but in some countries they don't want you to disturb the neighbours, who are likely not to far away on most properties. There are similar anomalies in most contries. Even Canada has some freebies though I don't much feel like talking aobut them.

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    homemade is offline Cast Iron
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    A really top notch job will leave a small register between the thread and the shoulder ,that the moderator screws over with slight tension.

    Would you kindly explain this process in a little more detail? For example I am not sure what you mean by "register".

  14. #14
    seiner is offline Aluminum
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    There was a fairly good article in Hand Loader magezine(I think) a couple of years ago about get a permit for a silencer. The cost was $200 for the permit, had to get sherifs approval but the biggest problem was to get the ATF to actualy process the application. They can't really turn you down if you are not a known sucurity risk but they can bury the paper work for years, the advise in the article was to wait thirty days and then call them and talk to the same person once a week, that advise came from an employee of the AFT. Author of the article figured the the silencer would end up on the shelf after he wrote his article, much to his surprise he used it alot for target practice and really enjoyed the reduced sound levels.

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    BobB is offline Cast Iron
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    As already stated, I wouldnt even attemp to use a die to put threads on a rifle barrel. I have cut off several barrels, and rethreaded on a lathe for people that tried to go the easy route. It just dosent work that way. If you cut thread with a die and screw a can on it and shoot it, any misalignment can and will cause baffle strikes. I have seen several suppressors that were trashed out and completely destroyed because of this.

    Also, be advised that lots of people will give advice on subjects that they know nothing about...as evidenced in this thread.

    I built my own suppressor using a Form 1. It is no different that getting a permit for a manufactured suppressor except that you must engrave name,adress and a serial number that you make up on the suppressor.

    It took me a little less that 4 months to get it back from the BATF. It was'nt as big a deal as most people make it out to be, you fill out the forms in duplicate, get two pictures, have the CLEO sign it and get two sets of fingerprints. I got my fingerprints at the Sherrifs Office and then walked the form over to the Sherrif and let him sign it.You send a money order for 200 bucks and wait it out. They are legal in 34 states. If it is legal in your state, and you can pass a background check, you wont have a problem. You get the form approved, it has a "tax stamp" on it, and then you build your suppressor...not before.

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    Peter Colman is offline Hot Rolled
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    As a felllow Brit and as you say that your rifles are in the UK under UK laws, we can deal with the legal and practical problems from a UK standpoint.
    1 In the UK you need a 'slot' on your ticket for a moderator
    2 22 moderators designed for air rifles are sometimes of poor quality but the Parker Hale is the accepted standard and is well made and I can recomend it to you
    3 threading is a problem without as lathe and I am not confident that I could do it without one, I am an engineer and gun smith. In the UK having the barrel turned down to 1/2" and sctrewcut is only 25 so why not get it done.
    3 you should get the rifle and moderator re-proofed to comply with UK law, this is a farce but to copmply with the rules that the way it is. This will only become a problem if you sell the rifle later.
    BTW the conmentricity of the barrel boring and the outrside diameter is so bad with some rifles that the only way is to have thew threading machined concentric with the bore.
    Peter

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    Jimno2506 is offline Aluminum
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilGunsmith View Post
    1/2-28 UNF is the standard thread on most 5.56mm(.223) military flash suppresors, muzzle brakes, and sound suppressors.
    Don't mean to pry, but don't you mean 1/2-28 UNEF? I thought 1/2-13 is UNC, 1/2-20 was UNF.

    Regards,
    Jimno

  18. #18
    Malc-Y is offline Aluminum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimno2506 View Post
    Don't mean to pry, but don't you mean 1/2-28 UNEF? I thought 1/2-13 is UNC, 1/2-20 was UNF.

    Regards,
    Jimno
    My Ruger 10/22 barrel is threaded 1/2" x 20 (UNF).

    Malc.

  19. #19
    pgfaini's Avatar
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    1/2-28 is a common muzzle brake thread, as is 9/16-24 and 5/8-24.
    Paul

  20. #20
    MarinePMI is offline Aluminum
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    1/2-28 = US/NATO standard for Moderators
    1/2-20 = UK standard thread for commercial Moderators

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