.454 Casull Mauser deer rifle

jonok · Apr 5, 2016

Wondering about experience with Mauser magazine mods to reliably feed rimmed cartridges.

I live in Michigan which, in its infinite wisdom, only lets us use rifles "up north", but will let us use anything at all with a pistol case elsewhere.

I have built a preliminary "test" rifle (for my personal use, I build a lot of rifles for other people) on a 1912 Steyr action with a repurposed .458 barrel and a blank extractor cut to fit.

I'm pretty happy with the ballistics of the .458 with Hornady ballistic tip .45 260 gr, and the sole fly in my ointment it the rimmed case.

It works great with one in the pipe, and one in the mag, but about every third time, if I try to put more than one in the mag, the rims skip with recoil and the second case jams.

Obviously, I staggered the cases appropriately when loading, but it clearly doesn't always work and I wonder if someone much smarter than me has figured out a definitive solution to this problem.

thanks in advance,

jim

Notlwonk · Apr 5, 2016

What would happen if you were to put a bevel on the rim, kind of like the 30-40 Krag?

Holescreek · Apr 5, 2016

I built a 98 in 7.62x54r a couple of years ago, couple very minor adjustments to the rails and it feeds fine. I've never experienced any issues but it's probably because of the longer case.

GGaskill · Apr 6, 2016

How about filling the magazine to make it a single column? Also, if you have an SMLE or Mosin, examine the magazine since they are designed for rimmed cases.

sicero · Apr 6, 2016

If it will load one,I would call that good.

Ohio has the pistol case rule also.

I went with the 357 Maximum single shot and have given some thought to

designing a magazine to load one from a blind magazine.

I would be tickled pink. Kenny

garyphansen · Apr 6, 2016

To function with a rimmed cartridge the magazine box needs to be slanted forward. The Siamese Mauser is an example.

gzig5 · Apr 6, 2016

If it will feed one reliably from the mag, I'd call it good. It is very rare that you would be able to get off more than two aimed shots at an animal before it has bugged out and if you could you would probably have enough time to reload. Lots of animals have been successfully taken with the Ruger #1.

ulav8r · Apr 6, 2016

With the 454, one should be plenty. A quick second round is more than enough.

If one is risky, don't take the shot.

Holescreek · Apr 6, 2016

sicero said:
If it will load one,I would call that good.

Ohio has the pistol case rule also.

I went with the 357 Maximum single shot and have given some thought to

designing a magazine to load one from a blind magazine.

I would be tickled pink. Kenny

Just an idea, I use .357 max brass to make loads for .351 winchester by turning the rim off the case and shortening it. Why not go the other way by seeing if .357max will fit (with the rims)in a repro 1907 Winchester magazine and adapt it?

Holescreek · Apr 6, 2016

It works great with one in the pipe, and one in the mag, but about every third time, if I try to put more than one in the mag, the rims skip with recoil and the second case jams.

One other question. Is the rim of the lowest case getting stuck behind the magazine follower? I had to weld a stop on the rear of the follower to take care of that.

9100 · Apr 6, 2016

It looks like you need a double rifle in that caliber. Now that would be a totally cool weapon.

Bill

jonok · Apr 6, 2016

1) I agree that more than 2 shots is unlikely to be needed (I usually shoot a muzzleloader for deer, and can't remember when I needed another shot, but it's the principle of the thing.

2) I haven't had any issue with extraction, ejection, or he second cartridge loading, I made a half-dozen dummy rounds, and I can fill the magazine (4+1, 5 is too tight) and, as long as I make sure that I stagger them forward, I can't make it jam, even if I try. The bolt just slides over the next round in line like it's supposed to.

3) I am curious about the mechanics of a tilted magazine, and I'll dig around in my pile of "rescued Mausers" to see what I have to study.

4)I'm a little leery about turning off/down the case rims just because with factory ammo the piezo pressure on this thing is about 58K, and I'm not too interested in blowing a case. (Maybe I'm just being chickensh*t)

Any way you look at it, it's a neat weapon, and, once I've got the bugs worked out, I've got a nice Shilen barrel blank, and some pretty wood For it.

I appreciate everyone's input and I'll try to incorporate some of the excellent suggestions

72bwhite · Apr 6, 2016

or you could do the old 44 auto mag you would have to make your own brass
from 308 win brass, but it was a legit pistol cartridge no need to mess with the bolt face either.

wesg · Apr 7, 2016

Starline lists .44 AMP brass as available.

If you want a real project, convert it to a tube magazine like a 71/84 Mauser.

DonMarkey · Apr 7, 2016

Where in mi are you. I have done several Siamese Mauser conversions and have some actions laying around if you need to study something. I'm by metro airport.
Don

akajun · Apr 8, 2016

I recently built a 45/70 bolt action repeater on a mosin Nagant action. The magazine is a single stack and has an interrupter to feed rimmed cartridges. It holds two in the mag and one in the chamber. The only caviat is it will not feed flat or short rounds. In hindsight I believe I could have alleviated this by making the breech end of the barrel cone shaped instead of flat o assist with feeding. I built this gun to shoot 500gr cast bullets that are pointed, they feed flawlessly.
Rather than using a Mauser , I would look for another rimmed surplus action like a krag( pressure?) enfield, styer manlicher, or lebel. Even an old converted Siamese Mauser would do.
Also have you thought of a lever gun?

Alpacca Fortyfive · Apr 8, 2016

A couple of thoughts for you

IIRC the 45 Long Colt, that .454 Casull is based on, has the same diameter ahead of the rim as 6.5 x 55mm Scandinavian: .480" (compared to .470" for .308, .30-06 etc)

Depending on how anal the bureaucrats are, you have a source of strong headed rimless .454 cases, with 6.5x55mm head stamps.

With suitable neck reaming and some clip on rims for head space , you should be able to demonstrate firing them in a revolver chambered for .454 Casull.

In a rifle, you will need to cut the chamber to allow headspacing on the case mouth, but mag, extractor and bolt face alterations become much less onerous than they would be with a rimmed case.

____________________________

If you do go for an rimmed case and a No4 Lee Enfield, one of the tricks for converting it to short rounds is to bore out the collar at the back of the receiver ring and to carry the rear of the barrel back into the loading/ejection port

Shortening of the bolt body and striker then allows the original bolt head to function as the bolt stop for a short stroke bolt, and a sheet metal block and feed ramp to be fixed into the mag.

alternatively, the back of the mag can be blocked off, and a new longer bolt head used to achieve a short bolt stroke, with feeding taking place up the original feed ramp. A screw tapped into the left wall of the receiver can function as a new ejector.

Edit: with any mag shortening, you'll need to get a smaller mag spring

Alpacca Fortyfive · Apr 8, 2016

Aditional thought,

For rimmed cases, you might like to experiment with a similar mag lip set up to those used in .22rf pistols, with a ramp cut out in the middle of the feed lips to lift the rim and case head up just as the bullet and case mouth are entering the chamber.

Surplus .45 acp Greasegun mags might be a good source for mag springs.

abarnsley · Apr 9, 2016

Too much pressure, for many of the antique pre modern heat treat/steels actions...

65,000 psi MAP.... Well past proof loads for many older rifle cartridges.. That is 338 Win Mag country.

If action is not strong enough for that, forget .454...

49,000 .303 British..

My advice, buy a modern .454 lever gun. and be done with it.. Or a Ruger #1 or #3..

Plink with .45 LC... It will feed and function properly, out of the box...

jonok · Apr 9, 2016

Dude... That Austrian Steyr action (made of "Swedish steel" which seems to me to be a lot of steps up from the last sintered 700 action I was asked to work on). and a modern ( Shilen) American barrel blank put together by me, using American machine tools, inspires a great deal more confidence than anything Uberti has produced of late...

.454 Casull Mauser deer rifle

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