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Affordable Beginner Machine Suggestions

Aphelion

Plastic
Joined
Apr 27, 2018
In advance, I'd like to say thank you for taking the time to read my post.
I'm a beginner who is looking to set up a home hobby shop that I'd like to eventually turn into a small business with an FFL-7 (hopefully) so that I can manufacture firearms and sell them as a small time customs thing doing everything short of making barrels due to the size and cost involved in a lathe that is able to make a straight bore through a piece of 28" steel (lets be honest, I'll outsource the barrels and swallow my pride), and to make small automotive parts here and there as well as custom computer parts like waterbocks and fittings.
The work area limitations I'll have to begin with to allow for a 10' work bench in addition to the machines having a 15' wide workspace are in the range of 25' across and 5' deep with no real height limits since I doubt any machines I'd afford exceed 8' height for the garage door and definitely don't exceed the 15' height ceiling in my garage.

I'd like to keep total cost of a mill and lathe together under $3000, but still be able to make respectable cuts in steel to ±1-thou accuracy, I don't mind it being slow going for accurate cuts to that tolerance in steel since there aren't really any big parts I'd be making from steel, most of those would be smaller so I can be slow going and patient with it. I'd like to have room for a 10"-12" max stock fitment 4-jaw Chuck on the lathe so that I could modify larger turbo housings if I desired, but if all I can realistically afford in my price and size limits is a 9" Chuck capable lathe so be it.
I don't have 3ph power at my house and have no idea how much it would cost to get the garage retrofitted for it, but I can gladly run 220-240VAC 1ph and figure out how to do the VFD or 1ph-3ph converters, I'd just like to keep those costs under $500 if possible.

I've been eying a lot of stuff on Craigslist and am curious about auctions and the like but don't know of any. I live in Heath, OH so I know there are a lot of industrial facilities that may be selling old equipment within a two hour drive.

Thanks again!
 
Well at a beginning level I wouldn't worry too much about buying the machines now that you will be using and needing in the future to produce firearms or anything else semi production.
Because they are several levels apart.
I would just look for a quality used and not abused lathe that will fit in your limited space, with tooling and skill level.
Unfortunately smaller machines are more expensive per pound because hobbyists want them. And industry didn't use them.

You can always keep looking for a better machine and trade up, rather then looking forever for that 1st dream machine.
It gets easier to find bargains when you get experience looking and knowing the shortcomings of your current and past machines.

You need to start attending auctions, watching CL and get out there shopping to know what is available in your area and the going price.

Giving you a specific make and model means little because you may not find one, or if you do it may be worn out.
While passing over other models.

Embrace 3 phase machines early, VFDs under 3 hp are cheap and a home brewed RPC is even cheaper yet. It opens a world of possibilities and if you end up making any machines like a shop belt grinder, or anything with a motor 3 phase motors are much lower cost (almost free used), simpler and live longer.
 
I don't want to rain on your parade, but you need to be aware of reality. Your budget is too low. If you attempt to fulfill your requirements within your current budget, you will end up with junk. You are far better off saving your hard earned money until you have enough to not only buy the machines you need, but the necessary tooling and accessories for those machines. As a rule of thumb, tools and accessories for any given machine will cost at least as much as the machine. Today, if you are lucky, to accomplish your initial goal, you won't get a lot of change from $10k.
 
This is why I'm asking for pointers and suggestions/recommendations. The tooling I expect to far exceed the $3k budget, so I didn't mention it for that reason, and I plan to accrue and make them over time.
The machines themselves are my initial concern. To be able to get into the things I listed and perhaps have a more limited work area is not a dream crusher for me. The biggest thing for me is the ability to maintain that accuracy. If it takes me several hours to mill a relatively simple steel part I'm okay with it, at least I think I will be since it's not what I'm doing as my wage earning career, but as a hobby for now. I basically want something that can cut aluminum pretty easily and is able to handle steel as a reduced rate of feed.

I don't know if that helps clarify or just muddies the water, but it's a shot.
 
Depending on how lucky you are 3k actually isn't impossible. Unfortunately you missed out on a Elgin VM-5 and Clausing 8530 that were very nicely priced a few weeks back. There's a Clausing 8520 still for sale in the Machinery tab. Small profile mills don't come up often so you need to be ready to pull the trigger fast. Lathe's are more common. There's a steady stream of machines and tooling on this forum so check it often. A WTB add doesn't hurt either. Be patient, it can take a while to find a good fit but it's worth it to wait for the right machine.
 
Rockwell 11" lathe. Van Norman 12, or 16 mill. A RPC is cheap, and reliable. Build it yourself. Schematics are available on this forum. With tooling, you will whiz by your budget before you know it. Regards, Clark
 
Rockwell 11" lathe. Van Norman 12, or 16 mill. A RPC is cheap, and reliable. Build it yourself. Schematics are available on this forum. With tooling, you will whiz by your budget before you know it. Regards, Clark

That Van Norman No. 12 style looks super versatile and sturdy, Just curious what are the other brand names that those typically got stamped with or copied by with reasonable quality? I'm thinking similar to the principle behind Rockwell/Atlas etc.

Definitely would like having a vertical and horizontal mill in one machine.

I also definitely did not include any tooling in my $3000 budget, I expect to spend well over $500 just to get the absolute basics started plus another $2-300 for basic metrology instruments to start off and within the first five years I expect to have put another $10000 into tooling, tool holders, metrology and cutting inserts(if I move beyond tool steel and carbide that I swage to the tool arms/heads.

I'd love to find a good use for this random 1/4hp single phase 110VAC motor I found in my garage the previous owners left behind, but I doubt it would be good for anything beyond a wood lathe or drill press for wood, so I'll likely sit on it and see if I can f'nagle it into being a drive motor for dust control.
 
For what it’s worth
I still believe the best way to train yourself
is to play, just like a kid. Making toys for your kids or grandkids.

Inexpensive machines will work for that, something
like a Jet bench mill and lathe running on 110, and they are easy to sell,
probably in your own neighborhood when your ready to upgrade.
Good luck
 
I'd love to attend, unfortunately I'm east of Columbus, OH by an hour and that puts me between 4.5 and 6 hours away from Detroit. I'll have to look around to see if there's anything similar for Columbus.
 
Another cheap example was a 12-30 Hendey on ebay about a month ago. It was in Ohio somewhere around Columbus. Went for I think 400. Have one myself and love it compared to a little south bend 9A I got to use as a second machine. Never use it now. It was only a 12 speed so a little slow but think it would have made heck of a machine to start out with since it worked good for me. I managed to get a 18 speed with tooling. Really rough and not under power but all worked good once it was.
Deals are out there just have to wait awhile.
Its been mentioned here before and have seen it in my shop bigger than you think is better within reason. Speed seems to be the only thing you sacrifice unless you find one with more speeds. only other thing is trying to move them.
As far as the budget goes at one time when I was still keeping tabs I had 7000 in my shop I built couple years ago and have a mini metric lathe a 9a southbend 12-30 Hendey a 18-54 beltdrive Hendey a Bridgeport style mill and a Cincinnati Horizontal with a bunch of tooling that either came with or found at auction or craigslist. I was in the right place at the right time and have been pretty lucky. I have more machines than needed so that figure would go down some.
Im always looking around and will try and let you know if I see anything. I search up around your area since im from Lancaster originaly and my mom lives in Columbus. You must be around Zanesville
 
In advance, I'd like to say thank you for taking the time to read my post.
I'm a beginner who is looking to set up a home hobby shop that I'd like to eventually turn into a small business with an FFL-7 (hopefully) so that I can manufacture firearms and sell them as a small time customs thing doing everything short of making barrels

You wish to do something interesting, challenging, hopefully meaningful and that at least pays its costs and perhaps earns a profit?

May I suggest you goal for artificial hearts, Mars travel vehicle components, or commercial airliner spare parts instead.

All have seriously onerous standards, regulations, and the associated test, inspection, and massive administrative costs as befits their critical nature. By and large, however, the regulations in each of those industries make a certain amount of sense.

The firearms trade, OTOH, has acquired a virtual Gordian knot of regulations which make far LESS sense, and include massive areas where enforcement is de facto arbitrary, whether designed to be so or not. And it may have been intentional.

Enforcement agencies with limited staff and budgets are delighted to reduce their workload by reducing the number of "gunsmiths" in their world.

You should study all that and pay close attention to the online chatter between and among those who have no choice but to deal with that borderline insane environment, else re-train as fry cooks.

If you think it really isn't all that difficult for a newbie so long as he can read English?

Then, sir, you just may be as nutty as the rules can be!

Besides.. with every new entrant that used to be happy building experimental aircraft, steam up-and-down, gas turbines, sailboats, speedboats, personal submarines, go-carts, fast cars, or repairing lawnmowers, clocks, or deep-sea sport-fishing reels deciding it sounded better to swing the more prestigious dick of "gunsmith"?

Not only are honest and life-long experienced "REAL" smiths pressed to survive and stay out of poor house, jail house, or nuthouse, whores, Lawsters, and plain-old psychopaths are also in danger of being put out of work.

Seriously. It is a frustrating mess. It is a time-consuming mess. And it is an expensive mess.

The metalworking has now become the "easy part".
 
At least in Ohio there are plenty of machines to pick from. Decent 12-36 might be the ticket..with QC..with having a steady..3 and 4 jaw..I like a taper attachment...looks like Perhaps $2500 might be the low price there.
Still, gun repair is a tough market and not easy to get started/trusted..Gun making is even tougher..
 
Even if I can't find something reasonably within my budget, mind you my budget excludes tooling, I can push the timeline back and save more money. I'm looking into the costs and practicality of installing 3-phase 240VAC to my garage compared to a comprable VFD setup for that sweet infinite speed variance.
I'm in Heath, OH.
 
Im running all mine off a cheap static 3 phase converter.4-8 HP takes care of everything. Think I got it on sale for around 300. Id put the money into machines and tooling first.On my 18 speed ive never needed a speed in between and on the mill it is variable already.
 
rotary phase inverter , static phase inverter, or separate VFD for each machine is going to be way more practical for any size manual machines and likely for any smaller CNC machines. I can tell you being very close to you in ohio, cheapest i know of anyone getting 3-phase utility power into a shop is $3500, and that was with 3phase lines already running across the property, rural electric utility. If AEP is your utility and 2-3000 min to that plus the extra spec's they require on the inside of your building. If you don't already have more that 20 HP worth of equipment neither one is likely going to even consider installing it. If it is an attached garage add another hurdle, just with utility company let alone insurance. Some very successful CNC machine shop run off Rotary or static inverters.
 
You could go antique for 250. Been there awhile on Ebay down in Roseville south of Zanesville. There are two gear heads listed on Lima Findley CL. One is a Monarch and was big most likely slow and other I think was a Rockford more your size.
 
watch toward nov dec there will be bunch of mills and few lathes available at industrial auction Anchor Glass in zanesville. some should go fairly cheap, some are worth that but could be rebuilt, lots of tooling.
 








 
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