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02-02-2011, 07:55 PM #1
Another Gunstock Duplicator: The Bad
We have seen the good duplicator (The one built by Les Brooks).
And the Ugly (Mine)
Now it is time for the Bad.
Photos will follow.
02-02-2011, 08:08 PM #2
This beast has one position for the pattern and tracer, and 4 positions for stock blanks and carving spindles. So you can carve up to 4 stocks at the same time. As shown in the photos, three positions have the motors and spindles removed (to reduce weight and inertia). And it is set up for short buttstocks, last stock carved on the machine was for a Marlin lever gun.
It is a real beast to run, as the carriage is very heavy. 200 pounds of lead are in the box on the rear of the carriage for use as a counterweight to balance the cutter end. Imagine this duplicator with the other three motors and carving spindles set up! Takes a Sasquatch to run it with just one carving position. Except for the square tube supporting the bearings for the cross axle, the swing arms and the spindle support pipe, all of the structural members are solid steel.
The machine was built by a stock supplier, many thousands of stocks went across this machine in the past. Current owner has not used it in some time. Over 700 pattern stocks came with it, they are stored in a loft above the duplicator.
Last edited by SilveradoHauler; 02-03-2011 at 07:57 AM.
02-03-2011, 02:01 PM #3
02-05-2011, 12:40 PM #4
I used to own that dupilicator. It was purchased by me from Wiesners gun shop in Chehalis, washington when they closed. It came with the paterns. It is a great design, and very heavy.
I sold it to the person I believe has it now about 1998 or 1999.
I know some people who like a couple stocks, anyway to get a hold of the present owner?
02-05-2011, 03:36 PM #5
I drove one of the trucks that hauled the duplicator and patterns from your shop way back.
The owner moved to Alaska and is in the middle of building a cabin and shop. The duplicator is now locked up in his barn near where I live. He quit making stocks several years ago, he is into too many other things and has no time for the gunstock business. So, no chance of having a blank carved.
If I were still in business I would offer to carve on my machine, but I am retired and barely have time to keep up with my projects! I would buy the Wisner machine if I did not have one now, the owner has offered it to me.
You are correct, it is pretty heavy.
I chatted with Jim Wisner once about the duplicator, he said when he was much younger carving stocks was "his job" as he was young and strong.
I likely will wind up with the Wisner duplicator when the owner sells his property here and completes his Alaska move, he ain't coming back!
02-06-2011, 09:11 AM #6
How much is asking for it?
It may be heavy, but i used a lighter one before i got that one much prefer heavy. It stops the cutter from jerking around and when pushing back and forth it carries its own momentum into the cut. That machine was all gear driven for the rotation which was nice also. the 1st one had was chain driven and there was too much slack.
02-06-2011, 03:52 PM #7
PM your email address to me and I will stick it on my desk, and get back to you next time the owner makes contact. He usually calls or emails me when he makes a supply run.
PS I remember those nasty cuts you had on your hand when we picked the machine up!!
If you have not seen the post, look at the one below, it has photos of my duplicator (The Northstar) and the one that Les Brooks built.
Basket Case: A Neat Machine Resurrected
02-06-2011, 05:20 PM #8
i too would be interested in the machine and patterns
jeffeosso at weaponsmith dot com
02-06-2011, 05:24 PM #9
i made my stock machine, starting from Les's plans.. on mk1, i used round linearbearing rails, and have 5 axis of motion .. mk2 had some improvements, mk3 uses hsr35 linear rails .. 2x5 rec tube for walls.. worked out pretty well
Pantograph by Jeffe
02-06-2011, 06:19 PM #10
About half of the patterns. Rest were in another pickup. Photo is low quality, I took a digital photo of a vintage 1999 color print.
The Wisner machine does good work, as I mentioned if I did not already have a duplicator the Wisner machine would live with me.
Like I said, will be some time before I get in touch with the owner, he is hunkered down in Alaska eating Moose meat, halibut and salmon.
02-06-2011, 09:10 PM #11
Cuts healed well, amazing i did not really hurt myself!
Well send you my email.
Your northstar looks great.
02-08-2011, 02:31 PM #12
This is from Jim Wisner:
LeeRoy, my father bought that machine used sometime in 1979. It came out of Oregon, it was made in a machine shop, all 1/4" and or 1/2" plate, angle and tubing, all bolted together.
Wisner's Gun Shop had it until the fall of 1994 when Ed Hilton in Federal Way WA, bought it as LeeRoy was closing the Gun Shop down.
I operated it from 1979 to 1986, I lost track of how many patterns there was, but it was more than a full size truck bed of patterns when LeeRoy sold the machine.
It had four spindles when LeeRoy sold it, I see only two on the machine currently. The head stock has worm gears, to rotate all five drive centers at the same time. The Chain visable in the picture, works two threaded shafts that move the tail stock front to rear, as it can take up to a 44 inch long stock if I recall.
I had heard that it was in storage up north by Port Angeles.
02-08-2011, 02:40 PM #13
Jim heard right.
All this time I thought Leroy built the machine, nice to find the real story!!
02-19-2011, 06:50 PM #14
You may think your machine is ugly but hopefull in a couple weeks you won't even be in the running for ugly.
I just finished the gear drive rotation unit.
The cross bar with wheels is finished waiting for bearings to mount the router stylis unit
which is mostly done.
So far it is made from what I have laying around as you will see.
I went and looked at a couple machines today to make sure I was headed in the right direction.
When I called the guy. He said no pictures.
One of the machines is a twelve spindle unit, probably fifteen long and maybe seven foot deep. I would guess something over two ton of cast iron.
It had wheels running on single V ways with a steel strap for control.
I think he said he bought the machine used in the 60s.
The smaller one a five spindle was pretty much covered up. The cutting units and stylis were on arms attached to a rigid bar across the machine.
The arms swing sideways rather than the whole unit moving.
I really couldn't see it, but he said he made it.
His black powder stock patterns were cast iron. He said the big machine momentem would flex the long stocks if the pattern was wood.
I will up date when I can get some pics. Kenny
02-19-2011, 07:09 PM #15
Photos, I am dying to see the photos!
A center support is important for long M/L stocks to reduce the flexing you mentioned. I have a couple of designs for center supports and may build them in the not too distant future. I think Hoenig makes a real nice set.
Years ago I saw a photo of a duplicator used by Fajen (Remember them?). Think it was 10 station, running it full of wood must have been a real chore.
CNC routher guys today do not know how good they have it!
02-20-2011, 02:28 AM #16
I may try to catch this guy in a better mood at a later date and get some pictures.
I did notice all units were equiped with cutters that looked like this old post hole digger, though much smaller of course. They were about 9/16" or 5/8" diameter.
When I asked him about them, he said they don't make them anymore.
If anyone know what they are called and availability, it would be greatly appreciated. Kenny
02-24-2011, 09:49 AM #17
Doe the cutter look like any of these?
02-24-2011, 05:08 PM #18
With my old puter, I can never see pictures clearly. It has to be something in my system. While other guys are arguing over how many thousands of wear here or there, I am lucky to see the ways.
Back to the router bit. They looked exactly like the small picture on the far right, including the Y split and bothsides coming around the bottom to cut a round bottom. Kenny
ps I am still working on old ugly.
08-14-2011, 04:06 AM #19
Gun carving duplicator
I am looking for a Kurk Start Carving Duplicator, new or used one. If you are interested in selling it, please contact me at [email protected]
08-19-2011, 07:56 AM #20
Bill Shehane said he had an Oliver stock duplicator ? Oliver made some nice stuff.