anyone with a shaper...

taiwanluthiers · Oct 23, 2017

How much would it be if I sent you a 4140 with a bore inside, reamed to .703" and for you to use a shaper to cut a raceway (2 of them, on opposing sides, to fit a Remington 700 bolt)? Would this be cheaper than to have someone EDM them?

johnoder · Oct 23, 2017

You have to holes where you want the race way to stop. Shapers aren't magic - they still cannot cut an internal feature blind - the tool has to have air to stop in

GeneT · Oct 23, 2017

johnoder said:
You have to holes where you want the race way to stop. Shapers aren't magic - they still cannot cut an internal feature blind - the tool has to have air to stop in

I think he would want them cut clear through - in which case a shaper would be well suited.

GsT

GenePoole · Oct 23, 2017

I've heard it said that you can make anything with a shaper except a profit.

wesg · Oct 23, 2017

Sounds like a major PITA to me. I can't see a shaft that size and length being stiff enough to support a cutter that wide. So I'd guess it would require multiple passes with multiple cutters to get it done.

A guided shaft with an adjustable, and retractable, cutter would be a better choice. Basically, a rifling head. Mounting that on a shaper would save the trouble of making something to reciprocate it with.

Sea Sick Steve · Oct 23, 2017

There was an article in precision shooting magazine many years back that addressed this topic. I tried it because I was young and it seemed like a worthy project.Just like wesg said it is basically a rifling head on steroids. The cutter is adjusted after each pass by simply turning a knurled screw that advances the cutter out of the housing. The problem I had was that the cutter was designed to cut on the back stroke and the shaper is designed to cut on the out stroke. Not the ideal situation. I was able to cut the lug ways in a hunk of 4140PHT the surface finish of the cut was not great but could have been easily remedied with a lap. I would bet that you could achieve good results if some time was devoted to re-engineering the tooling. I would think if the cut was made with several cutters instead of trying to take the entire width at once it might be a bit easier to get a better surface finish. Wesg is also correct trying to make that wide cut with with a hollow .700" dia rod to support the cutter head is a biche.

GunBum · Oct 23, 2017

I've tried to do the job you are describing, and found it very difficult to get decent results. With the time needed to set it up, and the speed that a shaper works,... It'll be cheaper to EDM.

taiwanluthiers · Oct 23, 2017

I made one without EDM before.

I just drill it in with end mills until I get to roughly the shape of the raceways, machining the middle portion of the raceway through the ejection port (to cut down on the amount of drilling I have to do). I would then finish it off with a file. I can make a fairly accurate rifle this way, even though the raceway is in rough shape. I was just hoping someone with a shaper could do it to save me the trouble.

When you shoot the rifle it doesn't "see" the raceways. It's only to allow you to work the bolt.

ulav8r · Oct 23, 2017

It would probably be easier to use a broach. Make an adjustable broach that is just like the cutter used in a shaper, push it through with a press, adjusting it after each pass for a deeper cut. Might be a little harder to hold alignment but fixturing would be easier. Once the setup and tooling is worked out it should be quicker to set up the next times for subsequent times if you want to continue making more in the future.

taiwanluthiers · Oct 23, 2017

I don't have a press, and I have no space for one... the lathe and mill is about all I have space for.

I know someone did it with a keyway broach but it still requires more than I have at the moment.

I guess I need to find out if someone makes a file that cuts more aggressively than what you can buy at Home Depot.

MIBill · Oct 23, 2017

Or maybe something like this...

Custom made broach

20 teeth per broach. .0025" DOC per tooth.

It worked but was a PITA!!!

However, it did cut VERY cleanly.

Spyderedge · Nov 1, 2017

GenePoole said:
I've heard it said that you can make anything with a shaper except a profit.

That might be the case now, but until fairly recently it was one of the primary tools used for off jobs. Internal splines for example.

Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk

lou · Nov 2, 2017

make a piece that has a slight press fits full length in the reamed hole. Drill holes 180 degrees apart with a drill that has proper size and location (you will have to do some figuring on the proper size and location). This to hog out the material. Press the piece out and finish the half circle to the proper size and shape with a boring bar in the lathe, using the carage as a shaper. hope you understand.

taiwanluthiers · Nov 2, 2017

I have a few ideas...

I will machine the majority of the raceways through the ejection port. This turns a 9" section that have to be broached into only 2" sections.

I thought I could grind a piece of HSS tool blanks into the right shape so I can push cut in the bore. I can either use my lathe to do this, or I would just use the tool bit like a cold chisel and pound it in.

In the past I used files and I prefer if there's something better.

wesg · Nov 2, 2017

taiwanluthiers said:
I prefer if there's something better.

The guy with the wire EDM. Seems to me he does them really cheap, considering.

My brother cut one for me, and did a really nice job. I think it was 5 finish passes, and took 7 hours. If I'd had to pay shop rate for that I would have just bought another BAT action.

A broach is the way to go otherwise. Some creative work with some off the shelf keyway broaches, and a home made final form tool would be fairly reasonable. A 'real' broach to cut the thing in one pass would be a nightmare for an amateur to make, even with a well equipped shop. Probably be at least 6 feet long and require tons to pull.

taiwanluthiers · Nov 2, 2017

If I had to pay 200 dollars just to have something like that done, I could buy myself an EDM once I make a fair number of them.

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