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Argentine Mauser1891 bull pup stock

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taiwanluthiers

Cast Iron
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Dec 6, 2016
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Xinjhuan District, New Taipei City
Just a little idea...

I have a 1891 argentine mauser, it's an ok gun but I really don't want to do anything permanent to it. That means no drilling for scopes or anything. However I see that someone makes a bull pup chassis for a Remington 700. While both firearms do not fit each other, I just thought, what if I make a bull pup stock for an argentine mauser, use a connecting rod to release the sears. That means no permanent modification to the gun, furthermore I can clamp a scope mount on the barrel, use normal (not EER) scopes, AND not have to turn the bolt down at all.

An added benefit is to shorten its overall length significantly while not changing its barrel length at all.

Expensive and ambitious? sure... but if it allows one to sporterize an old mauser without destroying its value...

What do you guys think?
 
Just a little idea...

I have a 1891 argentine mauser, it's an ok gun but I really don't want to do anything permanent to it. That means no drilling for scopes or anything. However I see that someone makes a bull pup chassis for a Remington 700. While both firearms do not fit each other, I just thought, what if I make a bull pup stock for an argentine mauser, use a connecting rod to release the sears. That means no permanent modification to the gun, furthermore I can clamp a scope mount on the barrel, use normal (not EER) scopes, AND not have to turn the bolt down at all.

An added benefit is to shorten its overall length significantly while not changing its barrel length at all.

Expensive and ambitious? sure... but if it allows one to sporterize an old mauser without destroying its value...

What do you guys think?

I'd say "sporterize" is the wrong word.

If one needs a compact firearm? Those are for combat or defensive situations, real or simulated. Your conversion would be a poor substitute for just about ANY such real-production design, civil or military, legal or otherwise.

For "sport?"

I'd want the longest sight-radius pragmatism allowed - Iron sights OR scoped.

Common firearms have reflected that "firearm to human" pragmatic length in a fairly narrow range for several hundred years. Military or civilian. Rifled or smoothbore. Even RPG's and other AT weapons are not much different.

What d'you suppose has suddenly changed?

Your personal body size, perhaps?

:)
 
Compactness is a side effect, not what is intended here.

The real problem is, if you want to scope an argentine mauser you have to drill and tap for a scope base, that is risky and destroys collector's value considering this is a collectable firearm. People end up putting a EER scope on where the iron sight goes. Speaking of which, iron site on an argentine is terrible. I can't see the sight blade at all at the range I go to and as a result I can't shoot worth a damn with it.

I think with some woodworking and metalworking skills, I may be able to just bullpup the sucker, won't cost me anything except my time. I can modify an aftermarket or replacement trigger to hook a connecting rod to. Then just put a trigger guard up front, and inlet the magazine into the stock portion (or modify an existing bottom metal from another firearm to fit). All original parts can be saved and restored if necessary.
 
risky and destroys collector's value considering this is a collectable firearm.
Understood. I harbour a few "collectibles" myself.

It hasn't been terribly onerous economically 60 years and more - for me to just leave them TF ALONE, and go purchase another firearm better suited to more frequent, or more specific, use.

IOW . if this is your ONLY firearm due to economic hardship? Or laziness?

Simply take advantage of that "collectibility" to sell or trade it for something already suited to your actual needs.

Make TWO people happier, and for near-zero effort vs Franken-f*****g a collectible.

If you wish to demonstrate "design skills"? Do it on something NOT "collectible".

For starters, you'll be able to find and afford more than one "donor" and/or purchase replacement parts for anything damaged in the course of the project. Or even if you just change your mind as to how you want it to go and wish to try some other way.

And don't forget about ITAR, in case you are not already in the system.
 
I already got 2 working Remington 700's. One of the biggest reason I machine my own receiver and build Rem 700's is so I can leave the Argentine mauser alone.

However I almost never shoot it, because the gun is so long it's hard to find a case that fits it (most are 48 inches at the longest), not to mention the sight makes it unsuitable unless I have really really good eyes (I do not) in perfect lighting condition.

I can do whatever I want with the Remington 700s, without fear of collectability or something.

That Argentine Mauser is so old that it is legally not a firearm, and they don't make them anymore. I saw a couple of them at Cabelas that has been sporterized the heck out of it. I mean, rebarreled to 270, drilled and tapped with a scope base, bolt turned down, original stock cut down, etc. and it's really sad to see... (I honestly wonder if that gun is even safe to shoot)
 
Monarchist is correct. Any sighting problems you have now though will go away. Since you will not be able to look at the sights from behind the receiver you won't see anything at all. So the short sight radius won't matter if you can't see them. In addition how will you operate the bolt? do you have 3 joints in your right arm or is it less than a foot long? If so you won't need that Rube Goldberg trigger arrangement. What could possibly be the point of doing this?
 
I already got 2 working Remington 700's. One of the biggest reason I machine my own receiver and build Rem 700's is so I can leave the Argentine mauser alone.
LOL!

Curious logic. Guess we are "cheaters" in our clan by your metric.

Wanted a Remington, bought a Remington, new OR used.
Didn't have to "machine" a damned thing.

Crafty bastards at Remington had beaten us to it..

Go figure...

:D
 
I think you need to think out your trigger design before you do anything else.

The XP-100 pistol has a forward trigger with a link that goes right through the area that the magazine occupies on a magazine rifle. It doesn't matter because it is a single shot. But even with its straight line link, there is excess slop in the trigger pull.

I suppose you could design a link that goes around the magazine but there isn't a lot of space in the stock and the linkage would be kind of flexible unless it's kind of heavy.

But it's your project.
 
I think you need to think out your trigger design before you do anything else.

The XP-100 pistol has a forward trigger with a link that goes right through the area that the magazine occupies on a magazine rifle. It doesn't matter because it is a single shot. But even with its straight line link, there is excess slop in the trigger pull.

I suppose you could design a link that goes around the magazine but there isn't a lot of space in the stock and the linkage would be kind of flexible unless it's kind of heavy.

But it's your project.

I'm not at all fussed someone wants to do that from a clean sheet of paper. If one can make Rem 700 actions that do not break, it should not be hard to do.

I just can't see trashing a "starter" in the same breath as recognizing it has "collector" value.

Simple grocery-store arithmetic applies.

I'm not so sure the "no longer classed as a firearm" WOULD still apply to a shortened 1891 Mauser any more than it might to a "zip gun" made of gas pipe.

Some fiddles are best left unplayed...
 
When you get tired of being kicked in the nuts here, you can go to one of the gun building forums, and get some "useful" feedback. There are plenty of people who won't judge you based on whether something is a good idea or not.

As for the original idea? I think it is a dumb way to make the 1891 more useful. I have a shit ton of old guns that don't get shot because they are not practical, but I keep them because of sentimental or collector value.

If you want a bull pup, then make a bull pup. If you want to make the 1891 useful without destroying collector value? Give up now.
 
You get kicked in the nuts here because, by and large, this is not a hack ass gun butcher mutual admiration society. In addition being a model 1891 does not mean it was made in 1891. Lots of homework to do before you fuck up this rifle.
 
Let me get this straight

How is it butchering, when I take all original parts, put it away. Mount barreled action onto completely newly fabricated parts, where all I need to do to restore it to factory configuration (where no one can tell anything had been done to it) is put the barreled action back onto the original parts?

I'm talking about doing reversible mods to it, not make permanent mods.
 
Let me get this straight

How is it butchering, when I take all original parts, put it away. Mount barreled action onto completely newly fabricated parts, where all I need to do to restore it to factory configuration (where no one can tell anything had been done to it) is put the barreled action back onto the original parts?

I'm talking about doing reversible mods to it, not make permanent mods.

That's a "rhetorical question", right?

I mean.. you don't REALLY think any of the grown-ups still considers you potty-trainable, do you?

Just get on with it while you can still shit anywhere you please.

Might want to keep the evidence for your OWN amusement lest it be pointed out that it stinks. Or put it into a certain Museum in Buenos Aires alongside an earlier failure done exactly ONCE that did not bear repeating. A bit over a hundred years ago by now, but then again, some folk are slower learners than others, so mayhap you can at least adapt the remote bolt operating design.
 
I think you are misunderstanding me (whether or not this is deliberate, I do not know)

I'm not going to cut, drill, or reblue ANY original parts. I am talking about fabricating new parts, clamped onto any original parts. I will not hacksaw the barrel in any way, nor attempt to replace the barrel with anything else but keeping it original. If I want to donate this rifle to some museum in Buenos Aires I can remove the barreled action from those new parts (that as you said may not turn out to be a good idea), put original, stock, serial number matching part on it, and no one in Buenos Aires will tell that it has ever been modified in any way (other than the fact that the crest was ground off by the Argentine government).

They do make bullpup stocks for Remington 700 and functionally it is about the same, so you can still operate the bolt.

You have the impression that I'm going to cut the barrel off, cut the stock and somehow re-carve them into something else that it's not. I'm not going to do anything in any way, shape or form on any original parts. Anymore than putting a scope mount where the rear sight is so you can put a EER scope on it.

And by the way if any of these rifle ends up at some other military's armory (it does happen, they have found original STG44 in Iraq before), you bet your ass the receiver will be drilled the heck out of it and have whatever they need put on it. Collectability be damned.

Sorry if I come across so obtuse, I just thought of a good idea to make use of rifles without having to do any machining on the actions or barrels but still make it usable for sports. I mean all kinds of people come up with those mods where the mods are completely reversible if they should want to sell it. Unless unbolting the barreled action from the stock somehow detracts from its collectibility. In that case I might as well not even clean it.
 
I think you are misunderstanding me

I don't really think it is possible to do otherwise.

Aren't you the same lad who decided to "Wage War" on the very existence of High Carbon Steel taps because HE didn't understand their use or utility in the grander scheme of things?

Or maybe just BROKE one and flew into a childish rage? Shit happens, get over it.

You don't really believe there was never a hole successfully tapped until HSS came along?

Or DO you? Ever wonder how armorers and machine-tool builders of the world handled that back in the day?
 
I did say that "not that there's anything wrong with HCS taps as long as they are properly heat treated and ground such as Greenfields".

So no I'm not waging war on HCS taps, but I'm waging war on CHEAP hardware store quality "made in USA" HCS taps.

I'm also saying that I'm sure it was possible to do a lot of things before the advent of HSS, CNC, etc. but HSS made things easier. Carbide made things so much easier. HCS end mill meant you had to be really careful, use lots of coolants, and a very good, stiff machine that is capable of taking a large bite without stalling. HSS made things a little easier, can spin faster, take smaller bites, but still require coolants and a stiff machine. Carbide made machining hard materials so easy it was like "how did we ever lived without it". Now with carbide you can use a lighter machine, very high RPM (where HSS cutters would melt) and as a result not need to take a really large bite. Machining pre hardened materials became trivial, heck I could even machine HSS with carbide. We got along fine before HSS came along but boy HSS made lives easier!
 
I did say that "not that there's anything wrong with HCS taps as long as they are properly heat treated and ground such as Greenfields".

They were once. If they still are? Thank the Chinese. So, too CTS, Cle-Forge.... other "Top Eastern" holdings.

You are getting your information just WHERE, and as-at what dates or "epoch"?

GFI | About Us

http://www.cutting-tool-supply.com/Greenfield/index.htm

HSS, BTW, was already OLD before WW II and has not YET entirely displaced HCS, nor have Carbides entirely displaced HSS. Big world. Many different needs. Millions of craftsmen fifty and a hundred years and even more tears ahead of you.

PM is not a Junior HS Shop Class.
 
You could do it without harming the value of the gun, if you are careful. HOWEVER, I would not want that action next to my face, I would want at least a 98 if using a Mauser.
 
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