Thread: busted gun and forehead

Check these pictures what ya think.

Uh... maybe too much Unique in a reload?

Bloody hell, I sure hope nobody was injured / killed. Any ideas on what happen ?

Seen those pics before - they're from a Field & Stream article.

Originally Posted by doug8cat

Bloody hell, I sure hope nobody was injured / killed. Any ideas on what happen ?

No one hurt very bad just a knot on head. Story claims it was from using Chinese ammo.

I understand how one could blow the top off the frame and if there was an inclusion in a cast cylinder I could see that flying open but how in the name of st. nick did they get enough heat to cookoff the 2 rounds out of battery? thats a lot of underwear stain right there....

I didn't know S&W made a top-loader. Or is that a Dardik conversion?

OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--
Johnny V
NRA Life Member 1976

This is a classic example of an overload failure and a reason to be cautious with top end loads in a S&W. To explain the mysterious detonated rounds, was simply, as the cylinder tore that section off, taking portions of the neighboring cylinders, the exposed powder from the other two chambers ignited. As you can see by the Hornady XTP hollow-point (Chinese, Oh really! show me the headstamp) is only slightly nudged forward. If it had any energy to work with it would have found a fast way out. If you note in the first photo, that the cylinder split right along the line of the cylinder notch. For some reason, S&W decided to place the cut at the thinnest point of the cylinder wall, that is why mechanically, the Colt D.A. family and any of the Ruger D.A. revolvers have a greater threshold for over-charge conditions. That isn't an excuse to put more powder in them, but the chances of a catastrophic failure are reduced. I would ask those that are metallurgists (which I am not) to comment on the fractured areas and does it appear to be a bit too crystalline. That dang photo has gotten a lot of mileage, I first saw it about two years ago.

Mark

Certainly not a metallurgist by any stretch, but the fractures zones do look a bit different than what I would have expected.

I never saw chinese ammo, but I'd expect it to either not fire at all, or to be very underloaded. They're not the type to put more of anything into anything, cost cutting, unless its chinese product smell, they put plenty of that.

How did it group??

That'll buff out.

I am no metalurgist, but I have spent fair amount of my professional time looking at failed parts.

At first glance, I dont see anything in the fracture surface that is unusual for a fast fracture in a heat treated part.

I would like to see the head stamps for the rounds that remain and get a chance to disect the rest of the rounds in that box of ammo. It would be good to know what the load was. It would also be nice to take a good look down the bore.

Like most failures we see, just not enough information to go on with just a photo.

I am just glad I was not in the next stall at the range when it poped.

Very,very COARSE looking grain in the metal of the busted cylinders. I was asked to look at a Uberti black powder pistol-a Colt Navy repro. Its cylinder pin had snapped off flush with the recoil shield,and the cylinder and barrel flew out about 50 feet to the front of the gun. The shooter had never before fired A GUN!! Must have been quite a shock!!

The cylinder pin's fracture was incredibly coarse. It looked like cast iron or something even more coarse. I recall the crystalline structure looked like it was made of crystals 1/32" across. I don't know what the Italians had done to that piece of steel!! The gun HAD been loaded with black powder. I never saw another case like that one.

My brother had a similar thing happen in a Ruger Super Blackhawk 44 mag a few years ago. Never did figure what went wrong. I'd put money on it being a bad job of reloading, but as I said nobody really knows. Ruger repaired it at cost, I thought that very equitable of them. Of course, with the stupid state of liability laws and lawsuits these days, they were just trying to prevent being sued, I'm sure. Still, surprised they fixed it at cost. Kudos to em.

Originally Posted by gorrilla

My brother had a similar thing happen in a Ruger Super Blackhawk 44 mag a few years ago. Never did figure what went wrong. I'd put money on it being a bad job of reloading, but as I said nobody really knows. Ruger repaired it at cost, I thought that very equitable of them. Of course, with the stupid state of liability laws and lawsuits these days, they were just trying to prevent being sued, I'm sure. Still, surprised they fixed it at cost. Kudos to em.

WOW you have to almost TRY to get a Ruger to fail like that I'm impressed. I used to be a hard core S&W fan, Still am when it comes to a few guns like the 625 but Ruger makes a far superior product and keeps improving. LCR is one good example.

Given the silver color of the primers in the cases I would bet those are reloads and most likely a double charge of powder in one. I see no inclusions in the cylinder failure joint that would suggest metallurgical issues for the cause of failure. I have seen these pictures before and the owner has claimed they were not reloads but Remington factory ammo and he would not show the head stamps of the rounds when the primer color was mentioned not being consistent with factory ammo. BTW this is the first time I have heard Chinese ammo being claimed for this failure.

Those photos are completely inadequate for making conclusions about the metallurgy.

The first time is say these pictures was 6 to 8 years ago and they came across an NRA Instructor group e-mail. Story was a new reloader and overload. The Chinese part of the story first showed up about 3 or 4 years ago. I have never seen or heard of any Chinese .44 mag.