cone pulley lathe alternative to 'spider?'

I've spent much of the last couple of years moving and reviving some machine tools that I was fortunate to be in the right place/right time to receive 'free if you move them' (though they were in locations where that was no small doing- the Cinci Toolmaster mill was in a basement).

My lathe from this endeavor is a nice (once I removed decades of filth) early 20th century flatbelt/cone pulley Leblond 14" with nice long bed, without much obvious wear, and with a nice complete set of steady rest, follow rest, taper attachment, and 3 and 4 jaw chucks. However, the cone pulley means a very, very long spindle/ headstock (well over 2ft total from chuck end to far left side...)

One of my interests in pursuing all of this is to be able to learn to do some DIY smithing, including barrel work.

The diameter of the bore of the lathe spindle is about 1.25. The length of the spindle nixes the option of using a 'spider' at the left end of the spindle bore to center a barrel to do things like chambering through the headstock. But this is the machine that I have, and the only machine that I am likely to have for a long time, maybe ever, at least as best I can see unless I once again find myself in a "right place right time" that I am not going to count on happening

What I am wondering is whether a careful shimming of the barrel at the muzzle end within the spindle could achieve something decently approximating the effect of a "spider"-
-say if the barrel's end opposite the chamber end were wrapped in something like 'painters tape' until it became a firm friction fit within the spindle? I realize that there is some imprecision in that makeshift approach- but on the other hand, the length of the spindle would allow that "support shimming" at the far muzzle end of the barrel furthest from the chamber area, which would [seemingly] reduce angle/error compared to support in a spider near barrel midpoint....

Am I on to something that could sort of function to make the best of an otherwise limiting condition, or am I best off planning to learn to do any chambering or similar work in some way other than "through the headstock?"

Thanks in advance for the patience with this newb-ish question; I greatly appreciate all that I have learned and continue to learn here on PM

Greetings,

You said you had a steady rest and plenty of bed length. Why not just use the steady rest?
Muzzle goes in four jaw, as deep as you like. Set up the chamber end in the steady, dial them both in, and you have essentially the same thing as a spider, with a LOT more control than the masking tape idea. Of course this is a whole lot easier if you've got a steady with ball bearing rollers, instead of raw bronze, and assuming you've got a decently round OD at the chamber end, but nothing's free. (Except your lathe, apparently. Lucky bastard.)

Regards,
Brian

Attempting to centre barrels with wedges or shims is a real PITA.Its possible your old lathe has sufficient space that four holes can be drilled in the spindle itself.I know I will attract flak for suggesting this,but engineering is the art of the possible,not of having museum pieces.1 1/4" spindle bore is also a bit on the small size for barrels,but usable.The other possibility,which I have done myself is to make a self centreing cone that is a snug fit in the spindle bore,provided the bore is uniform and smooth.Regards John.

I have used (general machine work) both WOOD and PVC bushings - quick to make as needed - turned and bored concentric

An improvement on the idea is slightly under bore and split wall to help bush stay where you put it on work piece

My spindle bore is too small, so all my barrel work is between centers.

Either way (through headstock, or between centers) can yield satisfactory results. Big question is, how accurate is the lathe? TIR at the spindle??

If the spindle has excessive runout, the ways are worn, etc...doesn't matter which method you use- the end result will be unsatisfactory.

I have seen some guys use a long, double-ended spider (eight screws) to indicate a barrel.

Using a bushing, would mean centering off the barrel, and not the bore. It may, or may not, be accurate enough depending on the quality of the barrel ( bore concentricity) and the level of precision you're seeking.

With a steady, I can work between centers with a floating reamer holder to "compensate" for minor misalignments between head and tailstock. Good thing about older lathes like my SB- most bed wear is right at the chuch, while barrel work is at the opposite end of the bed which typically sees very little use- and wear.

Thank you all for the insights and input, as always, I learn a lot around here on PM. As someone on the new and steep end of the learning curve, I have much to learn, but appreciate the opportunity to learn from all of you. I'm not to far from having just gotten the machines ready to run (and balancing other time demands in life) so I have a ways to go on getting a better understanding of just how worn or unworn, precise or imprecise, this lathe is. The only thing that jumps out as really worn is the leadscrew for the cross-slide, which is worn in one area to the point that the teeth have gone knife-edged, and if you take up enough slack in the corresponding nut to take the slop out there, it ends up tight in the less worn areas. Every other part of the lathe lacks anything that stands out to me as really worn, although, again, I have a long way to go and a lot to learn. Thanks again

I bought a Jet 1440 W gearhead lathe and mentioned to the guy I bought it from that since the spindle sticking out of the cover on the left end is threaded it would be easy to attach a 3 jaw chuck. He looked at me like I was nuts. For barrel work a four jaw would be better, dial it in to a gnats pimple. But the OP's lathe headstock is probably too long to fit the barrel in and still have enough sticking out to center in a chuck.
I have a French lathe with 3 1/8" bore that could really use a chuck on the far end.
parts

A Spanish lathe called a "Poreba" came with a an extra 3 jaw chuck mounted on the far end of the spindle.Regards John.

There used to be a guy named "speerchucker" used to post on this forum.What he didnt know about gunsmithing wasnt worth knowing.And went to great lengths to explain everything.Look up some of the old ones on the forum.Regards John.

Photos from way back in the early 90's.

1-1/2" diameter barrel, would not go through the 1-7/16" spindle bore. Barrel OD at the muzzle was turned true to the bore centerline, then the barrel was set up in the 4 jaw and the steady and dialed in.



Similar process, same lathe. This is a ball bearing steady, with a hollow spindle and 4 screws to hold the barrel & dial in, works like a 4 jaw chuck. Barrel is prepped first by turning a short length of the muzzle true to the bore centerline.



Indicating to a precision bore plug pushed into the bore. I also have a tenths reading indicator with a 3 inch stem to indicate on the grooves when striving for that perfect chamber job in a bench rest gun, but in the real world is not necessary for a hunting rifle and 99 per cent of the rifles built. Note the copper bushing to protect the barrel.



That ball bearing steady is handy. Grinding the muzzle to fit a barrel band front sight ramp.




Buy a good floating reamer holder. This one is a professional industrial machine shop floating holder, cost about $800. Works like very well and floats in all directions. No, you do not need to spend this much money, but avoid the cheapies!!



The Rolls Royce on top, the two below it are useless.



I think PTG and JGS make quality holders now, visit their web sites. It has been a long time since I did any serious gun work so I am not current with what is available today. Maybe the other gents will chime in. Check out the Accurate Reloading site, a lot of very good rifle builders post there. Search and read the old threads!

Ackley did it this way, hmmm.




Muzzle flush. If you are serious about barrel work you should build a system. Faster, better chambering job, practically no wear on the reamers.

john.k said:

There used to be a guy named "speerchucker" used to post on this forum.What he didnt know about gunsmithing wasnt worth knowing.And went to great lengths to explain everything.Look up some of the old ones on the forum.Regards John.

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Spearchucker is now a permanent resident of the Accurate Reloading Gunsmithing Forum.

Cross threads worn out can slip in thread and just lock up so making it hard to even get apart.. It is an easy job to hand grind a tool bit and turn a new screw so before going too far you might do that. Yes it does not have to be dead perfect to be much better than one almost locking up. Even if you make the screw out of CRS it may last a coon's age.
A 4 jaw chuck the best bet for head stock end and a steady, you can use a slip of copper to protect or like John said some PVC.
Yes a head stock center can often work in the muzzle end.. if you check the barrel to run Id to Od but yes that makes a long part for a small lathe..

Not having a 4jaw you might make head stock spider with a face plate and 4 angle brackets with screws. often the front sight is a problem with giong into a small taper at the head stock.

A Spanish lathe called a "Poreba" came with a an extra 3 jaw chuck mounted on the far end of the spindle.

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Yes, occasionally I come across industrial machines online for sale with extra chucks, and most of the "oilfield" lathes with big bores have them.
You can imagine, with a 4 or 6" bore there would be a need, and my lathe with 3 1/8" bore really needs one.