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Continental arms shotgun info request

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DrHook

Hot Rolled
Joined
Oct 8, 2013
Location
Pierre
I recently acquired a Continental Arms 12ga side by side with side hammers which is missing some parts. It appears to be in very good condition, with the exception of there being no firing pins. The fella had found some which appear to be the correct design, but are too small in diameter, which I can overcome, but I am wondering if anyone here has experience with this type of weapon, or better yet, a drawing. I assume I will need springs of some sort, but have been unable to determine what size/type is needed. The shotgun has "Pat Feb 10-1914" on the side of the receiver, along with a letter "I" encircled on the lower receiver, and matching 5 digit numbers stamped into the receiver, barrel assembly, fore stock wood, and in the metal in the fore stock, being 51XXX.
I am not an internet whiz, but a Google search yielded nothing to help me. TIA! V
 
DrHook said:
I recently acquired a Continental Arms 12ga side by side with side hammers which is missing some parts. It appears to be in very good condition, with the exception of there being no firing pins. The fella had found some which appear to be the correct design, but are too small in diameter, which I can overcome, but I am wondering if anyone here has experience with this type of weapon, or better yet, a drawing. I assume I will need springs of some sort, but have been unable to determine what size/type is needed. The shotgun has "Pat Feb 10-1914" on the side of the receiver, along with a letter "I" encircled on the lower receiver, and matching 5 digit numbers stamped into the receiver, barrel assembly, fore stock wood, and in the metal in the fore stock, being 51XXX.
I am not an internet whiz, but a Google search yielded nothing to help me. TIA! V
Click to expand...

I would be careful with modern shells in that thing, Might be best to not put firing pins in it.
 
Without a chamber gauge you have no idea what length chambers are in the barrels. Back then they had several sizes, as a example it was made with 2 1/2" chambers and you shoot a 2 3/4" shell which is a standard today. What happens is when the wad & shot open up the crimp, the 2 3/4" shell fired in a 2 1/2" or 2 9/16" chamber would have a slight obstruction before the shot entered the barrel bore. The result would be a increase in pressure. You would be better off making your shotgun a wall hanger.
 
I am a retired gunsmith. Worked for a very high-volume shop and handled a lot of high-grade double guns. Saw a million poor quality double shotguns too. If memory serves (my memory is admittedly poor) your gun is sort of like the old Crescent shotguns and a zillion others cheaply made and private lableled. They were sold by dry goods stores, hardware stores and the like. The manufacturing and distribution scheme was a lot like Chicom and Taiwanese lathes today. A group of several factories made generic shotguns, just like generic 13-40 and 14-40 lathes and slapped whatever name the buyer wanted. Think Enco! It really is analogous. Any decent Smith can make your firing pins and perhaps some other parts too. But, with top-notch shops labor rates being what they are - not at all inexpensive - you will spend much, much more than the old gun is worth. Bear in mind that one cannot simply make parts for an old beater and install them. Rather, they must be fitted-up to work with the old, worn parts. Again, time consuming and expensive. Another issue to explore concerns the steel used for the barrels. Very likely, they are old Damascus barrels. Never to be used with hot modern loads. Bottom line? Hang on the wall or tear it apart and throw the pieces into separate rivers. Then, go buy a nice shotgun!

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
 
Dr. Hook....I just had another thought about your gun. I missed your remark about your gun being a hammer gun. This takes it out of that group of firearms like "Crescent" inter alia. It almost certainly has Damascus barrels. My advice regarding its sensible disposition, nowithstanding it's relatively decent condition, remains unchanged.

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
 
moonlight machine said:
I would be careful with modern shells in that thing, Might be best to not put firing pins in it.
Click to expand...

I'd also hesitate putting firing pins back in; someone likely took them out for a reason. Possibly just to make it unoperable but also possibly because it has some problem.

My Dad picked up an old trade shotgun that would fire both barrels when you fired the left one. Eventually it started to fire when you closed the action. This wasn't a hammer gun but it sure got "exciting" to shoot.

The only thing I find in my reference material for Continental Arms is "Importers of sporting arms in NYC from the mid-1950s until 1965.", much too late for a hammer gun I would say.
 
Thanks for all the input!
If the name indicates an importer who operated in the 50's and 60's, wouldn't that remove the possibility of Damascus barrels? Also, the Damascus barrels I've seen were all quite obviously that style, which these do not appear to be. The "master plan" for any firings would be with black powder shells, for "smoke effect" only, and lower pressures. My local gunsmith buddy says some of the older side by sides didn't use a spring, but he had no info on this brand, so that's why I came here.
 
You're right, the likelihood of the barrels being Damascus steel is rather remote if your shotgun was really made in the 50s or 60s. Why don't you take it apart. Take careful note of the sequence in which the parts come off. I'm guessing you will find a couple of flat springs. Maybe they will just be old and taken a set. In any event I'll be happy walk you through making springs for it. Then too, Wolff Gunsprings Co. might well have something you can use on the cheap. Firing pins are a little harder due to the necessity of a proper radius on the pins. Wish I was close and I could make them for you as well. Still, you are acquainted with a gunsmith. Firing pins are a breeze for any decent smith. Let us know how it goes. Remember photos are always useful! Cheers

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
 
Continental Arms could be a number of makers.- it was a trade brand.

it is likely pre 1930 and IIRC of the Continental Arms marked shotguns the most common maker of the side by side hammer guns was Stevens, and their mark was 4 circles clustered together.

Subject to correction as my memory is crap.


BTW- there is Continental,Continental Arms Co.,Continental Arms Corporation, etc.
 
If so dated (50s - 60s) it would NEVER have side hammers - by then cheap hammerless box locks. Outside hammer SxS breech loading shotguns were the norm 1870s-1910s

DrHook said:
Thanks for all the input!
If the name indicates an importer who operated in the 50's and 60's,
Click to expand...
 
UncleFrank said:
The only thing I find in my reference material for Continental Arms is "Importers of sporting arms in NYC from the mid-1950s until 1965.", much too late for a hammer gun I would say.
Click to expand...
I didn't mean to imply this company was the source of your shotgun, just that it was the only one with that exact name I found in my reference books and lists of trade names. I'm sure the 1950s - 1960s is much too late for your firearm.
 
Thanks again, everyone!
UncleFrank! I'm slowly catching on-
I ass-umed the gun was maybe some sort of "throwback" model, because it doesn't appear "1910" to me. I have a 1901 built 1894 Winchester 30-30 which has been in the family almost 100 years to compare it to. So it probably IS that old... Still, isn't a Damascus barrel an obvious trait? The ones I've seen have all been obviously Damascus style, but I am no expert, and these look "normal" to me. I'll see if I can figure out how to post some pics.
 
Genuine Armory Steel" was a trade slogan stamped on shotgun barrels by Crescent Fire Arms Company in the period 1893-1932.

I have an old Armory Steel shotgun...,Forgot the maker will have to dig it out and check.

The old Ithaca Damascus double my dad hunted with into the 60s even shooting slugs is worth about $3500 now. I think he sold it for under $100 after Ithaca arms told him to hang it over the fire place.

Cant remember if that old french double had springs or the pins were just lose. The pin caps were screwed at off angle so had to go in the right hole and stop exactly on the turn or the were not flush. Can't remember if a Damascus or not. Beautiful Hang-up gun.
 
Should not need springs on the firing pins. They should just be loose. Hammers push the pins forward. The shells push the pins back when the action opens.
 
Common to have over travel on hammers - they don't touch FPs loaded with action closed

Its like that on my 1878 W.C Scott & Sons 10 bore
 
Continental Arms Co was a trade brand gun. I have three listing for that name.
1) Made by Crescent Fire Arms and sold by H&D fulsome.
2) Made by Stevens Arms & Tool Co. sold by Marshwell-Wells Co. Duluth MN/Canada
3)Contential Arms Co.1916 made by Harrington & Richardson Co.
There also was a gun named the Continental made by Great Western Gun Works
Pittsburg, Pa.
Hope this helps. Maybe by checking parts from these manufacturers you can find the correct parts for your gun.
Jesse
 
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