Copper .22 rim fire cartridges

garyphansen · Mar 11, 2016

Does anyone know when they quit making .22 rim fire cartridges out of copper and switched to brass. I found a copper .22 short case in the crawl space of my 114 year old home. I figured someone shot a squirrel with it before the house was built.

Spyderedge · Mar 11, 2016

Is it in good shape? Can you read the headstamp?

GGaskill · Mar 12, 2016

Does it look like a black powder cartridge? .22 rimfire has been around for a looong time.

gwilson · Mar 12, 2016

Wasn't the .22 RF one of the first cartridges ever invented?

blcksmth · Mar 12, 2016

I have a box of Peters .22 shot cartridges that have copper cases. Everything else I have, in boxes I can open, are brass.

Bob
WB8NQW

garyphansen · Mar 12, 2016

The head stamp is a "U", which I would guess is Union Metallic Cartridge (UMC) which if I remember correctly became Peters, which was bought by Remington and was then called Remington Peters. Correct me if I am wrong. Anyway, anyone have a guess as to a date?

paracongo308 · Mar 12, 2016

Did somebody mention copper? The 22's are about 100 years old and the 45/70's are 135 years old.

garyphansen · Mar 12, 2016

I did a little research and found that the .22 short came out in 1857, that is before the civil war. They were loaded with black power until the advent of smokless power. I am guessing that copper case I found was loaded with black power. I haven't found a date when they switched to smokless. So the case could date anywhere from 1857 to 1902 ( when my house was built).

72bwhite · Mar 12, 2016

the Army used to be really cheap and 45/70 gov was copper case because it was cheaper then
brass, they had trouble with extraction or failure to extract.

blcksmth · Mar 12, 2016

There were pin-fire, teat fire and inner primed cartridges which I believe were prior to rim fire technology. I believe I have samples of each in my cartridge collection.

Bob
WB8NQW

Alpacca Fortyfive · Mar 13, 2016

one of the patents for styphnate priming compounds lists as an advantage, the compatibility with brass cases. increasing the content of zinc increases the work hardenability and tensile strength of cases, up to the limit of the solid solution at 30% zinc, 70% copper. The weakest link in a rimfire is the case rim. So using brass, rather than copper allowed slightly higher peak operating pressures and slightly better performance loadings to be produced. Prior to styphnate based priming, straight mixes of chlorate and sulphide priming compound could theoretically have been used with brass cases, however, if fulminate was used as a sensitizer in the priming compound (typically in single digit percent), it would react with any zinc, causing embrittlement and cracking of the case, as well as loss of the sensitizer. In a rimfire case, the priming compound is in intimate contact with the case itself. hence the use of copper. There may have also been issues with tooling life and ease of drawing favouring copper or gliding metal as a case material, compared to brass. Copper coloured rimfire cases persisted in Britain until around WW11 time. The date of the first styphnate priming patents is around the mid 1930s. Frost; "ammunition manufacture" will give you the patent refs and a discussion of rimfire case materials.

Royldean · Mar 14, 2016

garyphansen said:
So the case could date anywhere from 1857 to 1902 ( when my house was built).

Isn't it a possibility that somebody had an animal problem in the crawl space, and did their shooting down there after the house was built?

And Para- I think the 22 shortage is coming to an end. You can stop hoarding that 22 and finally shoot it.

Notlwonk · Mar 14, 2016

I bought a box lot of older 22 rf ammo a few years back. One of the boxes was Remington with copper cases. As I recall those were dated to the mid/late 1920's. (they all fired!) A good resource for dating boxes can be found at this sight. http://22box-id.com/ Just click on the 'USA Boxes' or 'NON USA boxes' link. Apparently Remington was using copper cases into the 30's.

garyphansen · Mar 14, 2016

Do you recall it the Remington copper cases were blackpower?

Notlwonk · Mar 14, 2016

No, they were smokeless.

Alpacca Fortyfive · Mar 16, 2016

Notlwonk said:
No, they were smokeless.

but they're almost certain to be corrosive primed.

Alpacca Fortyfive · Mar 16, 2016

Some refs for dating

The first ref for priming with lead styphnate is:

US 1,443,328 granted to Herz in 1919.

Synthesis of tetrazene
US 1,859,529
Granted to Rathsburg 1928

Sensitizing styphnate priming compounds with tetrazene
US 1,889,116
Herz and Rathsburg 1930 (English patent was 1929) and assigned to Remmington.

Tetrazene sensitized priming compositions, but specifically describing the compatibility with brass cartridge cases
US 1,905,795
Burns, granted 1929 and assigned to Remmington

styphnic acid = tri nitro resorcinate, think of a benzene ring with two OH groups and 3 Nitrate groups.

IIRC the resorcine (benzene ring with 2 OH groups) content is what gives the phenol-formaldehyde resin used in plastic AK mags and furniture its red colour.

Useful stuff in the gun world and in remedies for a sore throat.

Incidentally, there are two crystal forms of Lead Styphnate. one of them is too sensitive to handle - and it is difficult to know which one is which. Frost, Ammunition manufacture describes all of this.

Notlwonk · Mar 19, 2016

Alpacca Fortyfive said:
but they're almost certain to be corrosive primed.

The one's I had were non corrosive, the box had the 'Kleanbore' with the dog bone logo. And never had a rust problem.

Copper .22 rim fire cartridges

Titanium

Titanium

Titanium

Diamond

Cast Iron

Titanium

Banned

Titanium

Titanium

Cast Iron

Stainless

Stainless

Plastic

Titanium

Plastic

Stainless

Stainless

Plastic

Similar threads