Rigid Dark Cutting oil

SkytopBrewster · Nov 11, 2013

Hello everyone, yes another wannabe gun plumber here.

I have been running Rigid Dark Cutting oil in my coolant system for threading and chambering. I really like it but it is so thick if I run the light on my lathe when the pump is running it trips the breaker in the lathe panel. Does anyone else use this oil? Was thinking about thinning it a little with a bit of kerosene to facilitate easier pumping.

speerchucker30x3 · Nov 11, 2013

I'm sure there is an environment friendly cutting fluid out there that won't harm fuzzy bunnies, stain your tighty whiteys and can be pumped with an eyedropper. But I still use Ridged cutting fluid or Cutmaster sulfur base oils. I ultimately bought a different oil pump. The coolent systems in most lathes are impeller systems made for pumping water. What you need is a gear pump. I do know guys that thin cutting oil with different mediums. I'm not sure what difference it makes to it's lubing qualities. The simple way would be to email Ridgid and ask I suppose.

SkytopBrewster · Nov 11, 2013

Thanks Rod, it was one of you posts I read a while back that led me to try it, will look into a better pump when I get home.

ditchdigger · Nov 11, 2013

Dark threading oil here, too. I move it with a gear pump.

Doug W · Nov 11, 2013

speerchucker30x3 said:
I'm sure there is an environment friendly cutting fluid out there that won't harm fuzzy bunnies, stain your tighty whiteys and can be pumped with an eyedropper. But I still use Ridged cutting fluid or Cutmaster sulfur base oils. I ultimately bought a different oil pump. The coolent systems in most lathes are impeller systems made for pumping water. What you need is a gear pump. I do know guys that thin cutting oil with different mediums. I'm not sure what difference it makes to it's lubing qualities. The simple way would be to email Ridgid and ask I suppose.

Spill the beans on your system.

How many gpm?
What pressure does it put out?
How many gallons does it hold?

THANKS!

Dan Miller · Nov 11, 2013

Cut Ridged with mineral spirits. This info came to me from Ridged Canada. I use it to stamp electrical steels with. My dies last quite well. I cut it 50/50.

I asked about using Varsol or kerosene but Mineral Spirits was recommended.

Artv · Nov 11, 2013

Dan Miller said:
I asked about using Varsol or kerosene but Mineral Spirits was recommended.

Varsol is Exxon's trademark name for mineral spirits. Mineral spirits is basically a solvent or thinner, and their recommendation makes sense. Varsol is generally a little more expensive than generic mineral spirits. Kerosene on the other hand is a light oil which in a pinch can be used as a gun oil. We use a combination of Mineral Oil (not spirits) and Kero as our in house gun oil formula (it has some lanolin in it too). For flood coolants, we use a Shell product, and for the manual applications we use whatever (to each his own) but Rigid is among them.

Art

speerchucker30x3 · Nov 11, 2013

Basically all you need is to find an old hydraulic power pack and run cutting fluid in it and not hydraulic oil. You will also have to instal a simple oil filter in the input line to the pump. You can use whatever you want for tankage, granddaddy's ole war helmet for all I care, but you need an over pressure and/or over volume return line back to tankage as well as a return line from the lathe tray. These pumps create far to much pressure for your needs so you have to return a lot to tankage. If you want to make one, these are the 3 base components you will need. The motor, pump and coupler. You will also need a couple lovejoy or butterfly couplers to connect the two shafts and some hydraulic line and valves. You can also buy a commercial manifold to regulate flow and pressure or do it the crude way with valves. A rig like this will also power about a 6 ton shop press if you have an old cylinder kicking around and will also run log splitters, jaws of life, auto shears or whatever other hydraulic appliance you happen to have kicking around. They will not however supply enough oil to deep hole drill. You need 7/10 GPM for those things. These pumps are 1.5/2 GPM. I have seen guys cannibalize old power-packs from electric/hydraulic winches and build systems for $200. I have seen other guys scratch build them for $500 / $1,000. I turned down a hydraulic lathe tracing attachment in Ontario for $600 a couple years back because it was to big for my machines. Hind sight being 20/20 I should have bought it and scrapped the tracer. It came with a 3HP power pack all set up with tankage and hose's. If your neighbor has an electric hydraulic log splitter he wants to get out of for $100 you may have a perfect hydraulic power pack. Most of those units are about 1.5 GPM at 2000 to 3000 PSI but it's no problem to vent excessive pressure and flow back to tankage.

2.2 GPM Bi-Rotational Pump/Motor | Princess Auto

C-Face Electric Motor Pump Mounting Bracket | Princess Auto

2 HP Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled Electric Motor | Princess Auto

Anyway now you know what you are looking for.

ADD NOTE: I'm no hydraulics expert. I go on the old farmer measurement of 1HP of motor to each gallon per minute to get 1000 PSI. Going with two little motor tends to wreak motors. So a 2HP motor will work with a pump that size but it won't give the full 3000 PSI the pump is capable of producing. Probably more like 1000 to 1500 PSI at a full 2 GPM I think! But don't take my word for it. There must be a hydraulics eggspurt crawling around here some where.

300sniper · Nov 11, 2013

Cut it with type f ATF.

300sniper · Nov 11, 2013

One of these days if work slows down, maybe I'll finally be able to finish this.

tdmidget · Nov 11, 2013

speerchucker30x3 said:
Basically all you need is to find an old hydraulic power pack and run cutting fluid in it and not hydraulic oil. You will also have to instal a simple oil filter in the input line to the pump. You can use whatever you want for tankage, granddaddy's ole war helmet for all I care, but you need an over pressure and/or over volume return line back to tankage as well as a return line from the lathe tray. These pumps create far to much pressure for your needs so you have to return a lot to tankage. If you want to make one, these are the 3 base components you will need. The motor, pump and coupler. You will also need a couple lovejoy or butterfly couplers to connect the two shafts and some hydraulic line and valves. You can also buy a commercial manifold to regulate flow and pressure or do it the crude way with valves. A rig like this will also power about a 6 ton shop press if you have an old cylinder kicking around and will also run log splitters, jaws of life, auto shears or whatever other hydraulic appliance you happen to have kicking around. They will not however supply enough oil to deep hole drill. You need 7/10 GPM for those things. These pumps are 1.5/2 GPM. I have seen guys cannibalize old power-packs from electric/hydraulic winches and build systems for $200. I have seen other guys scratch build them for $500 / $1,000. I turned down a hydraulic lathe tracing attachment in Ontario for $600 a couple years back because it was to big for my machines. Hind sight being 20/20 I should have bought it and scrapped the tracer. It came with a 3HP power pack all set up with tankage and hose's. If your neighbor has an electric hydraulic log splitter he wants to get out of for $100 you may have a perfect hydraulic power pack. Most of those units are about 1.5 GPM at 2000 to 3000 PSI but it's no problem to vent excessive pressure and flow back to tankage.

2.2 GPM Bi-Rotational Pump/Motor | Princess Auto

C-Face Electric Motor Pump Mounting Bracket | Princess Auto

2 HP Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled Electric Motor | Princess Auto

View attachment 90737 View attachment 90736 View attachment 90735

Anyway now you know what you are looking for.

ADD NOTE: I'm no hydraulics expert. I go on the old farmer measurement of 1HP of motor to each gallon per minute to get 1000 PSI. Going with two little motor tends to wreak motors. So a 2HP motor will work with a pump that size but it won't give the full 3000 PSI the pump is capable of producing. Probably more like 1000 to 1500 PSI at a full 2 GPM I think! But don't take my word for it. There must be a hydraulics eggspurt crawling around here some where.

"splain yourself. Why would a gunsmith scrap a tracer attachment?

speerchucker30x3 · Nov 11, 2013

Well, you can some times Micky Mouse a 14 inch tracer to an 18 inch machine by blocking it up. But trying to mount an 18 inch tracer on a 13 or 14 inch machine don't work so well. Even if you turn the lathe upside down. And there is not to much of a market for tracers since the advent of CNCs.

As an example here is a nice one for cheap. But that sucker ain't gonna bolt on to your 13 inch Grizzly. But if you can talk him down to $300 you have a ready made hydraulic powerpack. Providing it runs, you can fill it full of cutting fluid and just toss the tracer.

H Ernault Somua Hes Tracer Lathe Attachment Type 90 Copying | eBay

Doug W · Nov 11, 2013

speerchucker30x3 said:
Basically all you need is to find an old hydraulic power pack and run cutting fluid in it and not hydraulic oil. You will also have to instal a simple oil filter in the input line to the pump. You can use whatever you want for tankage, granddaddy's ole war helmet for all I care, but you need an over pressure and/or over volume return line back to tankage as well as a return line from the lathe tray. These pumps create far to much pressure for your needs so you have to return a lot to tankage. If you want to make one, these are the 3 base components you will need. The motor, pump and coupler. You will also need a couple lovejoy or butterfly couplers to connect the two shafts and some hydraulic line and valves. You can also buy a commercial manifold to regulate flow and pressure or do it the crude way with valves. A rig like this will also power about a 6 ton shop press if you have an old cylinder kicking around and will also run log splitters, jaws of life, auto shears or whatever other hydraulic appliance you happen to have kicking around. They will not however supply enough oil to deep hole drill. You need 7/10 GPM for those things. These pumps are 1.5/2 GPM. I have seen guys cannibalize old power-packs from electric/hydraulic winches and build systems for $200. I have seen other guys scratch build them for $500 / $1,000. I turned down a hydraulic lathe tracing attachment in Ontario for $600 a couple years back because it was to big for my machines. Hind sight being 20/20 I should have bought it and scrapped the tracer. It came with a 3HP power pack all set up with tankage and hose's. If your neighbor has an electric hydraulic log splitter he wants to get out of for $100 you may have a perfect hydraulic power pack. Most of those units are about 1.5 GPM at 2000 to 3000 PSI but it's no problem to vent excessive pressure and flow back to tankage.

ADD NOTE: I'm no hydraulics expert. I go on the old farmer measurement of 1HP of motor to each gallon per minute to get 1000 PSI. Going with two little motor tends to wreak motors. So a 2HP motor will work with a pump that size but it won't give the full 3000 PSI the pump is capable of producing. Probably more like 1000 to 1500 PSI at a full 2 GPM I think! But don't take my word for it. There must be a hydraulics eggspurt crawling around here some where.

Thanks, that is what I am looking for.
Minor error, that 2.2 gpm pump is with a 3450rpm motor, the 1725 rpm motor you linked would be 1.1 gpm.

I am going to >try< some gun drilling so I want to setup for both chambering and gun drilling.
According to Hoffman in The Modern Riflebarrel 4gpm is required for a 3/8 hole up to 12 inches deep. 6 gpm would be required up to 36 inches.
Sterling Drill says 4.5gpm.

Since I plan to drill less than 12 inches (not interested in making riflebarrels) I am going to aim for 4 gpm and try some of the Ebay gun drills I bought and see what happens.

Surplus center calculator puts that at 0.5 cu in/rev, 1725 rpm, 3hp motor, 1000 psi.
I have about a 20 gallon tank, that is hopefully big enough, the motor, lovejoys and some of the other stuff.

Just need to find time and buy a pump.

speerchucker30x3 · Nov 11, 2013

John M Browning was quoted as saying: "make it strong enough to be safe, and then double it." I find that logic works well with crap like oil pumps as well. You can bleed off tons of volume and pressure back to tankage by just opening the valve a bit. But it don't matter how much you swear at it after the fact, you can't increase flow and pressure if you come up short. About the most you need for chambering is 65 pounds and 1/2 gallon per minute. But I prefer to err on the side of caution. Having been caught short to many times I've gotten kinda funny that way. LMAO

tdmidget · Nov 12, 2013

speerchucker30x3 said:
Well, you can some times Micky Mouse a 14 inch tracer to an 18 inch machine by blocking it up. But trying to mount an 18 inch tracer on a 13 or 14 inch machine don't work so well. Even if you turn the lathe upside down. And there is not to much of a market for tracers since the advent of CNCs.

As an example here is a nice one for cheap. But that sucker ain't gonna bolt on to your 13 inch Grizzly. But if you can talk him down to $300 you have a ready made hydraulic powerpack. Providing it runs, you can fill it full of cutting fluid and just toss the tracer.

H Ernault Somua Hes Tracer Lathe Attachment Type 90 Copying | eBay

Well, I can't see much potential in that froggy tinkertoy either. But the problem is that it is too small. A 13 in Grizzly would be about perfect for it. Yes it is possible to get very much out of a Mimic or Cadillac. These attachments look big but they have to be big to be useful. You also need a long lathe to use one.

speerchucker30x3 · Nov 12, 2013

tdmidget said:
Well, I can't see much potential in that froggy tinkertoy either. But the problem is that it is too small. A 13 in Grizzly would be about perfect for it. Yes it is possible to get very much out of a Mimic or Cadillac. These attachments look big but they have to be big to be useful. You also nee a long lathe to use one.

Ahh ha. So you're saying the only practical use it would have, would be if you could give him $300 for it and then toss the tracing unit in the dumpster and used the hydraulic powerpack as a cutting oil feed?

SkytopBrewster · Nov 12, 2013

Do you use this oil for everything or are you talking about only for your high pressure flushing/chambering setup?

ditchdigger · Nov 12, 2013

I only use with my muzzle flush. I , generally, just use a pump oiler w/ dark oil when threading as i don't care to sling oil everywhere. Most other work is done dry, except drilling big holes at low RPMs.

speerchucker30x3 · Nov 12, 2013

I only use oil for threading and chambering now. 30 years ago we used to use oil a lot for turning with HSS but it smokes up the shop to much and carbide has made that a thing of the past. I used to have two separate, removable pumps and tankage. I finally got so annoyed switching them back and forth and cleaning the machine that I just bought a second machine for water and left the old machine set up for cutting fluid. I do pretty much all my threading and chambering on the one machine with collets and leave a 3 jaw and water set up on the other for general machine work. The expense of two machines is not for everyone and I did go a lot of years with only one medium size machine. With the cheap carbide tooling today most gunsmiths can get away without water for most applications. But when cutting large material or for some drilling operations water is often just a necessity.

Rigid Dark Cutting oil

Plastic

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Aluminum

Aluminum

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Hot Rolled

Titanium

Diamond

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Plastic

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