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Thread: ER40 Collet Chuck Fixtures
08-20-2012, 08:31 AM #21
Thanks Speerchucker, I got in too big of a hurry and turned the backplate down too much. I'm going to face the whole thing off flat and start again tonight.
08-21-2012, 11:24 AM #22
I have used a whole lot of ER32 stuff, and the "range" of the collets to get the best out of them is 0. This means that IMHO an "on size" collet is worlds better than one that is "just close". There are some companies that make half sizes that come in handy.
I always put the tool (mine were tool holders not work holders) in the collet and gripped it in my hand, if the collet was in good shape it would grip the work completely with just that much pressure, when they "die" they get a taper to them in the free state...might never happen in a small shop with typical use. Also if you look up what the mfg states as the proper torque....they have to be quite tight in FT Lbs...takes a pretty decent wrench to get them there.
I always wanted an ER32 nose for my SB 9.
08-21-2012, 12:29 PM #23
I know guys that have gone to ER32's for work holding but they quickly found that they were forever pulling the collet plate off and putting the chuck back on for odd jobs because the ER32's only go up to 3/4 inch. You are far better off to go to ER40's. They are the same price, same backplate size, they go up to one inch and ER40 collets are always more readily available than ER32's. ER32's are nicer on small mills because the small size lets you sneak up closer to the vise and see better but you don't have those concerns on a lathe for work holding. I just bought an ER32 plate for the C1 hobby machine that I make pins and small screws on but that's more of a can opener than a lathe.
08-21-2012, 03:51 PM #24
I bought a piece of 12L14 just for making ER40 noses, and one of these days I'll actually cut into it.
08-21-2012, 04:01 PM #25
08-21-2012, 10:08 PM #26
08-21-2012, 10:26 PM #27
I think they are the same Bill. Possibly the ER32's stick out 1/4 to 1/2 inch less but I don't think its much. The diameter of the ER40's is obviously a bit more but for a lathe it does not matter. But I will take a picture of both side by side tomorrow for you and post it.
08-22-2012, 09:28 AM #28
08-22-2012, 10:24 PM #29
I guess I was looking at it and thinking you could get some of the taper INSIDE the SB9 threaded spindle nose :-). Havint tightened ER32 to the proper torque tens of thousands of times, I could never see how you would get an er40 tight to spec, maybe you can get away with not tightening it to spec for a tool holder ?
Looks like 130 ft lbs for ER40 ?
Getting the Best Performance from ER Collet Chucks « CNCCookbook CNC Blog CNCCookbook CNC Blog
08-22-2012, 10:33 PM #30
08-22-2012, 10:55 PM #31
I don't know how tight you want to tighten them Bill but I have never had anything slip in them and all I use is the spanner wrench supplied with the plate. I have never needed a snipe or anything to keep them from slipping. I have a 5C collet set with a wheel closer and I used to have a 5C Bison chuck. Those things would slip like the clutch in an old woman's car.
08-23-2012, 06:20 AM #32
Looks like Maritool has ER40 collets up to 1-3/16
08-23-2012, 06:38 AM #33
12-15-2012, 11:06 PM #34
getting off the dime..
I finally took my 'theoretical' research results and posted a PM thread asking for opinions.
Got some good responses, plus a surprising number of negatives, nearly all of them from the uninformed who had 5C-breath.
Your thread, here counterbalanced that with much more positive experience from extensive hands-on ER use.
Bottom line is I couldn't see any advantage of ER-32 over ER-40, nor find enough in the way of good sources for scarcer ER-50 or ER-60, so bought one of the T4C's ER-40 plates you recommended.
For anything larger, I've decided a salvaged and cleaned-up Jacobs 9XX series will be less hassle. And, of course, my 4-J chucks.
For smaller, I expect to skip all the intermediate sizes and straight-shank mount a simple ER-8 INTO an ER-40, and 'tune' it for TIR if/as/when need be. ELSE same again with a pin vise, which I have used for years for even smaller sizes. I don't do a lot of #80 holes these days.
Between T4C's price and the good fortune to have recently grabbed several small D1-3" faceplates, the whole rig will come in right around US$ 100, plus a bit of time fitting it all up.
40-taper and B&S 9 ER-40 mounts still 'To Do', and of course - collets.
But at least I have ceased procr-ass- tinating and made a comittment!
Thanks for that!
12-15-2012, 11:36 PM #35
Jeff got the ER40 collets in a while back They are $150.00 for a full set of 23 collets covering everything from 1/8 through 1 inch.
Tools4cheap LLC Online Machine Shop Tooling Store: ER 40 23pc Collet Set w/ Holder,ER Collets and Chucks
I have also bought some Sowa brand ER40 collets which are nearly triple the price. When running precision ground material in them I find that they run no truer than the cheaper collets although the surface finish on them is a bit better. I find run out on cold rolled material is just under .001 inch and run out on precision ground material is about .0003 but my Mitutoyo 1/10 indicator is advertised as being accurate to only to + or - .0002 so the real run out on them is anyone's guess. Under 1/2 thousands I guess is fair to say.
If you need something to hold smaller sizes you can buy an ER25 set with a straight shank holder that you can simply clamp into the ER40 collet and that will give you a range of 1/6 to 5/8ths. They are quite cheap. I don't have one but I may order one just to have it for small pins. I have no need for anything smaller than 1/16th. Not much in a gun is smaller than .0625 in diameter.
Tools4cheap LLC Online Machine Shop Tooling Store: ER 25 Collet Set w/ Straight Shank Holder,ER Collets and Chucks
12-16-2012, 12:09 AM #36
Best prices I can find on the uber-precise .0002 TIR are from a Taiwanese firm with factories in both Taiwan and PRC selling under the . 'Techniks' brand. Seem to be well-regarded in general.
I have also bought some Sowa brand ...
If you need something to hold smaller sizes you can buy an ER25 set with a straight shank holder that you can simply clamp into the ER40 collet and that will give you a range of 1/6 to 5/8ths. They are quite cheap. I don't have one but I may order one just to have it for small pins.
For a busier shop, of course the workholder's overall size and how much torque they want to actuate, etc matter just as much as grip-range. For MY limited needs, OTOH, ER-40 + ER-8 covers it.
Lathe-wise most of the time I expect to be on 4-J or faceplate anyway. Mills and DP are already pretty well covered, so one-each 40-taper and B&S #9 and I'm done acquiring for a while.
12-16-2012, 02:38 AM #37
Re: ER40 Collet Chuck Fixtures
Tagged for sober reading
12-16-2012, 04:29 AM #38
12-16-2012, 10:21 AM #39
Whew, that was a good idea. I've an extra D1-6 back plate and 10 days off over the holiday- making a set true er40 chuck may be just the thing to do.
Anyone remember any good threads on how to do one?
12-16-2012, 11:06 AM #40
There was a thread here on that but I disremember when and where. Its just like any other chuck. Cut the male on the plate .003 inch over in diameter and cut the forward part .020 short for clearance. Locate and drill the holes in the plate slightly over size say .020 per side. Lightly oil the plate to rust proof it and put the plate in the deep freeze for three hours to shrink it. Then heat the chuck to say 200F, just to hot to handle without gloves or almost spitting hot. Pull the plate out of the freezer and quickly line up the holes and drop the two parts together. Run the bolts in and snug them up and as they normalize they should stick. If they wont go together take a thousandths off the plate and try again. Some guys will cut the male undersized a bit and then snug the bolts a bit and knock them into zero with a piece of babbit using a dial indicator and a piece of ground stock and then tighten them down. I'm far to lazy to go to all that trouble.
ADD NOTE: Actually it was post #20 of this thread.