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Lathe advice needed

IndyGunworks

Cast Iron
Joined
Feb 11, 2010
Location
Indianapolis, IN
In an apprenticeship now, that is not teaching me much machinework. Run my own business (Indy Gunworks LLC) and am hoping to be a full service gunsmith in the near future, but I need to get the equipment to learn on first. I already have a Index knee mill and am learning on that now. want to start looking into lathes.
i was reccomended this
Grizzly G4003G
but i have always been under the impression that grizzly is cheap chinese stuff. and it doesnt have a DRO which i think will make the learning curve much easier. can it be fitted with one? by me?

what reccomendations would you guys have for a lathe, that has to last me the rest of my career, is semi easy to learn on, and able to hold the tolerances i need for gunsmithing.

Nick
 
Indy, If you do a search here and other gunsmiths sites you will find a lot of discussion on which lathe is best to buy, but it usually boils down to a couple of things, the hole through and length of the head and whether you want/need to buy a used lathe or you want a new one.

I can only speak from personal experience, I first bought a used lathe and fought it for several years before sending it on it's way and buying a new Grizzly.

Grizzly has made a major effort to support gunsmiths with tooling and even rifle barrels now. I know that the owner of Grizzly is a Benchrest shooter of some talent and Grizzly machines have always been a good value for me.

Since we chose not to maintain very much manufacturing of machines here in the USA you are pretty well stuck with buying an Asian built lathe or used American iron some of which I have seen were not really all that good. Also be aware that some machine names may suggest that they are American made but are not.

It is hard to do good work on worn out machines. You also have to ask whether you want to fix, repair, rebuild lathes or build/fix guns. You won't have time to do both.

IMHO
Lowell
 
If you have the money buy new
but use will work good too.

DRO works ok but not need on a lathe a mag base dail work good on a lathe and is reliable on both mill and lathe]

Dave
 
For the money of that 16x40 you can buy some really nice used lathes.
For someone that can handle the size and the 3-phase, it's a buyer's market.
I saw a pristine Okuma last week for $3500.
 
Nick:
The specs. on that gunsmith lathe are close to a 15" Colchester except the English lathe has a larger spindle ID and 7 1/2 HP. I bought a Colchester in '74 and have only needed new belts and new oil. It is very easy to install a DRO but like Dave said it's not needed. As for me, I would take a 30 year old English lathe over a new China make any day.
Good luck
Mike
 
Guess you already found the main forum general section has an unwritten (?)
rule that you can't say Gr!zzley without getting frowned on. The GS forum
is a good deal more forgiving but if you want another venue to discuss this
without the prohibition problem you could try the general section, or the
GS section, of this place here:

The Home Machinist! • Index page
 
Nick:
The specs. on that gunsmith lathe are close to a 15" Colchester except the English lathe has a larger spindle ID and 7 1/2 HP. I bought a Colchester in '74 and have only needed new belts and new oil. It is very easy to install a DRO but like Dave said it's not needed. As for me, I would take a 30 year old English lathe over a new China make any day.
Good luck
Mike

I too have an older English made 15-50 Colchester Clausing, that looks identical to the Gunsmith 15x50 that Grizzly makes over on the other side of the Pacific Ocean. I have only had to replace one Belt, (Pump Motor Belt) and have replaced the oils. The large hole throught the Headstock allows me to Chamber with a spider on the d1-6 plate and the 50 inch bed allows me the option of chambering with the use of the Steady if need be. I am at this point looking for a follwer rest too. The lathe is Big, stable and powerfull enough for anything I want to do. I run 480v 3 phase from the Output of my Miller 250 3 phase welder / generator. So Edison did not need to bring 480 to me. The welder is perfect for my other uses, and the generator serves the purpose, should I loose power at the house 11,000 watts at 220V. I would not trade the older English version for the new Chinese. I also work as a union welder and I drive American made cars. Don't park a Nissan, Toyota, or Honda in my drive, thank you.

Paul
 
what about this larger model
G0509G 16" x 40" 3-Phase Gunsmith's Metal Lathe
seems pretty pricy compared to the first one... not so sure if i want to buy new... looks like a DRO is going to run around 800 bucks as well.

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Indy,
I bought this machine about 18 months ago..Installed a new Aloris tool post, a 300 S Acu Rite DRO and I could not be happier...It is a fantastic machine..I use it daily for pistol barrels, an occassional rifle barrel, and related parts. I have zero negative issues..

Jerry
 
Buy a lathe with in your budget
Any one likes a new lathe with all the bells and whistle I have look at the Grizzly G4003G
It looks like a good lathe but not in my budget today
So I use a 9" x 24" cc lathe will do most of the work
I may have to send out a few BARRELS each year but cheeper than a new lathe
As DRO's they work geat new but in a fews year most skip or just does not work
They work better on mills than lathes
I am putting DRO on my small mill but not on the lathe

At this time I am a Journeyman machinist going to school to be a gunsmith

I hope this help you
Dave
 
An overlooked lathe is the Rockwell. It has variable speed, 1.400" ID headstock, and it is short enough in the headstock to chamber 18" barrels.
The most important thing is the headstock bearings and runout of the spindle. The ways and tailstock alignment have no effect on chambering if you use good machineshop practices. Those 2 items are important for other machining operations, but not chambering.
Anybody want to argue that?
Butch
 
No argument there Butch! In my opinion the Rockwell 11x36's are great gunsmith lathes. I really enjoy mine. When trying it out before buying it (from a well known BR rimfire smith who sadly recently left the range) the owners buddy commented "That lathe sure has chambered up a bunch of hall of fame points." How's that for a Rockwell endorsement?
 
Butch how can I find a good M300 if you guys keep recommending them? The more people look for one my chances of finding a nice one gets slimmer by the day.

Here is the same lathe that Clausing currently sells as the M300. PM1340T Metal Lathe It comes out of the same factory as the Clausings but you can get it from Matt quite a bit cheaper.
 
I have an older Grizzly 16X40 lathe that has made me a living since late 80's doing tool and die, plastic mold work. Only replaced the motor when I burned out the original doing alot of forward /reversing spindle changing running a production job. It's not near the machine the newer Grizzly gunsmithing lathes are but it owns me nothing. Doesn't have oil in gearbox or apron, you just squirk some in when the mood strikes you.
Remember it isn't so much the machine as the monkey turning the dials that makes good parts. I complained once to my last boss about the lathe I was running being wore out and he told me "rj, I'm not impressed with a machinist who can make good parts on good machines. I'm impressed with a someone who can make good parts on junky woreout machines" Just doesn't make your job any easier.
As for the M300 Harrison I ran for years, nice, good smooth machines to run, but the slide bearing length is short so the ways wear quicker then I thought they should. My old Grizzly has nice long ways and 20+ years later there is no grooves worn like on the Harrison.
Just saying, rj
 
rj,
I hear what you are saying, but you wouldn't wear the ways out on any lather doing gunsmithing unless you polish barrels without covering the ways. When chambering a barrel, that is cutting the tenon and threading it you are using less than 1.250" of carriage travel. Even at that if the lathe ways were worn out, how much effect will it have on the tenon and threads. You will have much more slop in the threads than any taper in the ways.
Do I want a worn out lathe? No, but I can still cut an excellent chamber on one.
Butch
 
harrison m300 look like

I actually have a new pm1340t lathe that i purchased from matt and they are not the same lathe.
I ran Pete Pieper's lathe once in Hempstead and fell in love with that lathe. Smooth, accurate and shifted like butter I told Pete. I knew i had to own one.
They are actually identical looking lathes on first glance but the spindle bearings are not Gamet but a lower grade having more runout and the leadscrew halfnut is actually only half a nut. Only the bottom of the nut is there and that is what pushes up to engage the leadscrew.
It is still a very nice lathe to run for the money and would be great for gunsmithing just do not think you are buying a Harrison. Also, Matt is a great guy to deal with.
John
 
As DRO's they work geat new but in a fews year most skip or just does not work;----------------------------------
Dave; I notice that you have made mention of this twice..I disagree..I have DROs on lathes and mills. I have taught at Colleges with gunsmith/machining programs that had large inventories of both mill and lathe DROs. I have not seen this problem you state.. (They work better on mills than lathes) Quite frankly, I can't imagine how one installation is adverse to the other. If the scales are mounted and aligned properly, the machine platform matters not.----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am putting DRO on my small mill but not on the lathe.
I am a Journeyman machinist going to school to be a gunsmith;
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There's an old saying.."You can make a gunsmith out of a machinist in about two days...but you may never make a machinist out of a gunsmith.."
Goodluck

Jerry
 








 
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