Glueing steel

homebrew.357 · Oct 20, 2016

Hi all, I have made a new barrel for my Hawken plains rifle, my first one was a bit hard to load lead bullets, but ok with p r b. But as I had all the bits to make another barrel I thought I would try and improve on it. The new barrel has to have the under barrel ramrod guide and ramrod ferule, on the first barrel I had soldered it on, but with the new barrel I was thinking could I glue it on with the super glues of today and save heating up the new barrel, could warp it. So has anyone had a go at gluing steel to steel, I will be rust browning after its done. Thanks, Homebrew.357.

,Under barrel bar.

johansen · Oct 21, 2016

if heating the barrel up to soldering temperature warps it, then you have a lot of internal stresses. i hate to be a troll but i don't know of any glue that can handle the stresses that will be generated by the difference in temperature between those two parts during normal operation.

homebrew.357 · Oct 21, 2016

Well thanks for that , it was just a thought, the barrel is 1045 steel, same as my first one and I suppose after firing it for awhile it would fall of. So I will sweat solder it on with a blow torch, the first one worked ok , Cheers, Homebrew.357.

Richard King · Oct 21, 2016

Nick Hughes down in Nowata OK who is a Gunsmith told me he uses Loc-Tite Black Max 380 Super Glue to glue sights to shotgun barrels. I use it to glue Turcite wear strips to ways and I find it to work super. Be sure to wear rubber gloves when using it as it sticks to everything and hard to remove from your skin.

Jim Kobe · Oct 21, 2016

Plus one for the black-max. I had to remove a front barrel band sight I had put on with the stuff, red hot and it would not come off. By the way, the barrel was trash and just wanted to save the sight; didn't work.

precision tools · Oct 21, 2016

I have heard of using Black Max for gluing scope mounts and sights in place. Can anyone with experience tell me if it affects the blue? I have a couple of applications, but am reluctant to try for fear of damaging the bluing.

henrya · Oct 21, 2016

precision tools said:
I have heard of using Black Max for gluing scope mounts and sights in place. Can anyone with experience tell me if it affects the blue? I have a couple of applications, but am reluctant to try for fear of damaging the bluing.

Sounds like to me that the black max is permanent. For screwed on scope bases and sights, cheap five-minute epoxy works great and you can clean it off later with no damage.

Spyderedge · Oct 21, 2016

Soldering to barrels is common practice, maybe you can find a medium temp solder?

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Forestgnome · Oct 21, 2016

Jim Kobe said:
Plus one for the black-max. I had to remove a front barrel band sight I had put on with the stuff, red hot and it would not come off. By the way, the barrel was trash and just wanted to save the sight; didn't work.

Acetone dissolves it.

Scottl · Oct 21, 2016

You might try TIX. It is a low temperature solder but very strong. I have soldered some weird stuff with it using an aggressive flux such as Comet.

Other thing I would suggest is preheat the barrel gently and make sure the way you have it fixtured for soldering is not causing undue stress.

Edit: I must confess I did use Black Max to tack down the end of a rib on an older British cartridge double that was originally soft soldered and it has held up well. I am not sure I would trust it for barrel lugs but in the case of ramrod guides that is a lower stress part and failure would not be catastrophic.

homebrew.357 · Oct 23, 2016

Hi guys, looks like there is two ways of doing it, and Johansen it`s a muzzle loading barrel, so it would not get to hot even in rapid fire. So there is a lot of stuff we do not get in New Zealand so looking in our mega "Mitre 10" store I found J B weld, a two part glue and this is that I have used, when fully cured tensile strength is 3,930psi, so its stuck on and will never get it off. Next job will be rust browning and a range try out to set the sights. Thanks for your input, Cheers, Homebrew.357.

GGaskill · Oct 23, 2016

I think you should have browned it first and then epoxied. The epoxy will prevent the browning of the area that it covers and probably will look strange.

homebrew.357 · Oct 23, 2016

Well I've glued it, but only under the barrel strip and cleaned off all the glue where I did not want it, it`s a 50/50 mix and takes 4/5 hours to harden , so over night it`s on to stay for good.

and has anyone have a home recipe for a browning solution, I have sulphuric acid, nitric acid and it is quite humid in N Z, so it works good just outside.

homebrew.357 · Oct 24, 2016

Ooops, camera glitches, the double caravan pics are of my hunting trip, only saw one deer, but it had seen me first, :bawling:

,Cheers, Homebrew.357.

Scottl · Oct 24, 2016

homebrew.357,

It would be nice if you could bookmark this thread and post an update in a few months as to how well the adhesive holds up. If you prepped it correctly I'd bet the guides would distort before you could pop the J-B Weld by prying. Done right, and in the right applications it's pretty good stuff.

homebrew.357 · Oct 25, 2016

Will do guys, I`m hoping this will be a better barrel, it`s a lot straighter bore, I used the gun drill that did my Sharps barrel, so it`s .457" bore size . So made my bullet mould a bit bigger and just a thicker patch on the round balls should get it right. I rough filed both surfaces and cleaned with Acetone, as a sample I glued a bullet to a bit of steel, danged if I can get it off. I gave the barrel a good lead lapping before fitting the breech plug and tricky fitting it to the same stock, but I got there.

john.k · Oct 25, 2016

Of course,the catch with epoxies and cyanos is if you want to remove the parts.With solder,a quick pass of the torch and it all falls apart.I built a pseudo military Martini 303,and just temporarily glued on a steel forend cap and the Enfield type rearsight and a mauser type foresight on a band.It was only superglue,and the parts are still there more than ten years later.The barrel does get hot at times,and sometimes is washed out with boiling water after blackpowder.Regards John.

gwilson · Oct 25, 2016

I WOULD NEVER USE TIX SOLDER !!!! Many years ago I tried using it to hold internal parts on a flintlock lock while drilling them to fit the lock plate. I COULD NOT STOP THE DAMNED STUFF FROM RUSTING. I boiled the tix soldered lock in baking soda and water MANY TIMES. The crap kept rusting the polished lock! It's the hydrochloric acid in the flux.

Eventually,I finally got the flux killed,but it was a HUUUUUUUGE PITA !!!!

There is a Loctite that is so strong it is used to stick double barrel shotgun barrels together. My gunsmith friend Jon uses it. I can't remember the item number,but you can find out by posting on gunsmith forums. It is fantastic stuff,to withstand the kick and shock that it must.

Scottl · Oct 25, 2016

gwilson said:
I WOULD NEVER USE TIX SOLDER !!!! Many years ago I tried using it to hold internal parts on a flintlock lock while drilling them to fit the lock plate. I COULD NOT STOP THE DAMNED STUFF FROM RUSTING. I boiled the tix soldered lock in baking soda and water MANY TIMES. The crap kept rusting the polished lock! It's the hydrochloric acid in the flux.

Eventually,I finally got the flux killed,but it was a HUUUUUUUGE PITA !!!!

There is a Loctite that is so strong it is used to stick double barrel shotgun barrels together. My gunsmith friend Jon uses it. I can't remember the item number,but you can find out by posting on gunsmith forums. It is fantastic stuff,to withstand the kick and shock that it must.

I'm not sure why you had such trouble with rusting. People have used both the TIX flux and others for years without trouble by careful cleaning. I use Comet Flux with TIX because I already have it on hand and only need to buy the solder. I recently used it to solder together zinc alloy handles and extensions for some outdoor spigots that were knuckle busters with the stock handles.

Pathogen · Oct 25, 2016

As a thought, I have used low temperature silver solder MG 120 by Messer Welding Products 15000 psi tensile, 430F working temp.

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