Gordy Gritters DVD on Chambering

willymakit · May 13, 2015

In Gordys' DVD How to chamber a rifle, he demos a Grizzly lathe. In this video he is using GTR reamer holder attached to a "centering" device. It is the black piece of metal between the GTR holder and the MT4 taper. Can anyone tell me who made this? Or what it was used on? I need to lower my tail stock height by .011" and this would do it very handily.
I don't want to have the bottom of the tail stock ground on, and don't know who could do it properly. All help appreciated. Bill Stowers [email protected]

tdmidget · May 13, 2015

Gee, would a link help, maybe?

willymakit · May 13, 2015

Sorry, I do not know how to do that?
Bill

300sniper · May 13, 2015

Someone let me borrow that DVD years ago. It is adjustable for offset. In this case, he is using it to get the tailstock on height. I know I have seen the device before but can't remember where. It is basically an adjustable boring head in principal though.

I'm not trying to bag on the machine, but I do chuckle when he is being promoted by the manufacture of machine designed specifically for chambering precision rifle barrels, and he has to correct for a tailstock that is too high and with travel out far enough that he needs a floating reamer holder. (...Only floats partially, before the floating reamers don't float Nazis show up! haha)

willymakit · May 13, 2015

If you would try to remember where you saw such a devise it could save me a lot effort trying to re-engineer an adjustable boring head. I do not know if this device was being used to correct a tail stock height issue, as Gordy talks of using 20ft.lbs. of torque on the tail stock to bring it into vertical alignment. If memory serves me Gordy explained the GTR reamer holder "pushes" the reamer on center to the lathe spindle bore. This is the reason for his alignment of the chamber/bore at the chuck, and NOT muzzle/breech center line. So....the reamer pilot follows the bore and is pushed straight by the dead center in the GTR holder.
willy

GenePoole · May 13, 2015

Here's the device I think the OP is talking about. Gordy doesn't mention it at all in the video:

FredC · May 14, 2015

I got a little Criterion S-1 1/2 boring head for my HLV-H since it does not have the ability to offset the tailstock. Installed a #2 Morse taper shank and a highspeed steel center and it is ready to taper turn. If your floating adapter has a 1/2 shaft then this same boring head would work for correcting small offsets.

willymakit · May 14, 2015

Thanks to GenePoole for the pic of Mr. Balolia's centering device. Thank you FredC for info on the Criterion S-1 1/2 boring head. It looks like I can get a boring head with a MT4 shank and mod my reamer holder to fit the front of the boring head. I certainly appreciate all the help sorting this out.

Best regards,
willy

Jwilliams31 · May 15, 2015

Pacific tool and gauge has them. Just type in tailstock on the search bar.

ncglocker · May 15, 2015

I actually had conversations with Gordy about that, he showed up to grizzly to do 1st video, Shiraz had high dollar camera crew already there and he didn't have time to go through normal indicating of the machine, so just used that device to quickly get tailstock on center, if you watch Gordy keeps hand over it a lot through the video. If I recall correctly that ended up being a very good barrel for Shiraz, setup very quickly and Lathe not perfectly leveled or indicated.

willymakit · May 15, 2015

I spoke to Gordy about the "centering device" and he said not to worry about my tailstock being off so much and just use a floating reamer holder! I didn't want to call him out on this advice, since he had been so willing to talk about it, but I really thought his method described in the video made perfect sense especially if you wanted the best chamber possible. I do believe that every time you make something the best possible it adds up to produce a product of excellent performance. At my stage in life there is not time left for "Good Enough" performance. BTW, I put together a "centering device" for about $147, could have done it for less if I wanted to "cut some corners" but I do not have time for shortcuts!
willy

tdmidget · May 15, 2015

ncglocker said:
If I recall correctly that ended up being a very good barrel for Shiraz, setup very quickly and Lathe not perfectly leveled or indicated.

Does that tell you anything?

neanderthal mach · May 29, 2015

A general point just for reference that some may not know about yet. It's EXTREMELY easy to get fooled into thinking your tailstock is in fact high just from the effects of gravity bending a magnetic base's indicator mounting rod. I spent more than a few hours on that exact problem and thinking my tailstock was out. It is more than a bit amazing just how much a 3/8"ths diameter rod will bend under it's own weight and the weight of even a small dial test indicator when there in a horizontal orientation. There's been at least one fairly recent thread about this in the general forum here that would be well worth checking.

I'm certainly not saying your tailstock isn't out, but I'd want to run at least a few different test's to verify it is out, how much, and in what direction before I started to make any permanent corrections if it were my machine. A between center's test bar or even a commercially built cylindrical square that normally still has the center's it was ground on and a good DTI attached to the cross slide would certainly provide some exact numbers on how well it's aligned to the headstocks CL for both height and towards or away from the operator.

You may already know all this, but I'd hate to see anyone else waste a bunch of time and money on a problem that may or may not really be there like I did. And if it is in fact high? If it's enough then high precision surface grinding by someone who does understand machine tool rebuilding would certainly be one method. To get it exact then a good machine tool scraper hand could bring it into specification also. Since you'd need to keep your alignments exactly accurate in 3 diamention's I just don't think that's a starting project for anyone who doesn't have a lot of experience. I know just enough that I wouldn't attempt it.

Pete

Hardened · May 29, 2015

For all this bending and what not, why not just toss a co-ax in the spindle and indicate around the center? Love the boring head idea.

Butch Lambert · May 30, 2015

Why does a lathe need leveling?

300sniper · May 30, 2015

Butch Lambert said:
Why does a lathe need leveling?

So your coolant runs to the return!

neanderthal mach · May 30, 2015

Butch Lambert said:
Why does a lathe need leveling?

A lathe doesn't really need leveling at all. They'd work just as well bolted down to a wall. What it does need that most don't really understand is to have the bedway's in the same position they were originally ground and/or scraped to. Getting a lathe "level" is just the easiest method of getting everything true much like it was set up and ground/scraped to since that's an industry standard that bedway or slideway grinders are precision aligned using levels, lasers, etc. Machine tool scrapers also use very high precision levels to keep there work true. Again that "level" is just a verifiable method to get a machine to the same state it was when it was ground and/or scraped. What you want is to have a machine in a "relaxed" condition. No stress or twist on the bed at all.

But.................even very a high precision Mitutoyo level won't get or give you a 100% exact alignment. It does and will give you a excellent starting point for further but very minor tweaking.Due to the stack up of tollerance's in any machine that has clearances to allow anything to move, and no matter how expensive it is, even dead on and perfect leveling or as close as you can get to it with even a super accurate level will not give you a taperless cut end to end on the full travel on any lathe even with a brand new machine.

I started with a little Emco Compact 5 lathe and bolted it down to a 1" thick 27" x 12" steel plate. Then used screw adjustments and leveled it to agree EXACTLY with my Mit. level. I still had to make some trial cuts and then some very minor but critical screw adjustments to bring my little lathe into turning true over almost 12" in length.I have had it within 2/10ths but obviously without a temperature controlled room and with my wooden built shop floor it was only really accurate and stable for a very few hrs if I was super lucky.But I sure did learn a hell of a lot with what I did though.

There's WAY too much misunderstanding on all of these forums about this subject.Yes it's not exactly cheap, but I highly recommend "Machine Tool Reconditioning". It will put you to sleep and was written in the 1950's and it still sells for almost $100.00. However there hasn't been anything written since to replace it. It will give you just the start of a understanding of just how clean,lubed, and then how important machine tool alignment is.Even if I never? rebuild any machine tool I consider it one of the best investment's I've made for my shop.

Pete

Butch Lambert · May 31, 2015

neanderthal mach said:
A lathe doesn't really need leveling at all. They'd work just as well bolted down to a wall. What it does need that most don't really understand is to have the bedway's in the same position they were originally ground and/or scraped to. Getting a lathe "level" is just the easiest method of getting everything true much like it was set up and ground/scraped to since that's an industry standard that bedway or slideway grinders are precision aligned using levels, lasers, etc. Machine tool scrapers also use very high precision levels to keep there work true. Again that "level" is just a verifiable method to get a machine to the same state it was when it was ground and/or scraped. What you want is to have a machine in a "relaxed" condition. No stress or twist on the bed at all.

But.................even very a high precision Mitutoyo level won't get or give you a 100% exact alignment. It does and will give you a excellent starting point for further but very minor tweaking.Due to the stack up of tollerance's in any machine that has clearances to allow anything to move, and no matter how expensive it is, even dead on and perfect leveling or as close as you can get to it with even a super accurate level will not give you a taperless cut end to end on the full travel on any lathe even with a brand new machine.

I started with a little Emco Compact 5 lathe and bolted it down to a 1" thick 27" x 12" steel plate. Then used screw adjustments and leveled it to agree EXACTLY with my Mit. level. I still had to make some trial cuts and then some very minor but critical screw adjustments to bring my little lathe into turning true over almost 12" in length.I have had it within 2/10ths but obviously without a temperature controlled room and with my wooden built shop floor it was only really accurate and stable for a very few hrs if I was super lucky.But I sure did learn a hell of a lot with what I did though.

There's WAY too much misunderstanding on all of these forums about this subject.Yes it's not exactly cheap, but I highly recommend "Machine Tool Reconditioning". It will put you to sleep and was written in the 1950's and it still sells for almost $100.00. However there hasn't been anything written since to replace it. It will give you just the start of a understanding of just how clean,lubed, and then how important machine tool alignment is.Even if I never? rebuild any machine tool I consider it one of the best investment's I've made for my shop.

Pete

First good answer that I have seen on a forum. If they had to be plumb, level, and parallel, you couldn't use them on a ship. Basically it needs to have no twist in the ways.

300 Sniper, My Clausing will not drain the coolant unless it was way out of level. Needs chip pan work. My 10EE is not a problem as it has a deep and wide drain in the center.

neanderthal mach · May 31, 2015

Thank's Butch,
But my apology's to the OP as answering your question kind of dragged his thread a bit off topic.

Most higher quality lathes and especially anything designated as a tool room lathe are almost always built with the CL of the tailstock a few thousandth's high. That way they slowly wear into tolerance and take a lot longer to start wearing out of tolerance. For general turning of long shafts that few thou high makes almost an unmeasureable difference since your tool tip is only a few thou below the shaft CL at the tailstocks end. So having your tailstock set slightly high for that isn't a real problem. However I can see the OP'S point since any real deviation from being truly aligned to the headstock's CL could create issues while center drilling, drilling and especially reaming.There is generally enough "slack" between the clearances for the tailstock's bore and the quill,possibly a few thou of runout on the average drill chuck, and given the length of most drills there is enough to allow everything to mostly self center itself since a stationary drill and a rotating shaft helps to pull a drill in towards the shaft's CL if your tailstocks CL isn't excessively high. But if in fact the OP was correct with his figures then that machine never should have passed any quality control inspection check and then gotten shipped.

FWIW, I bought and wasted my money on a larger lathe from a country we can't discuss here. The tailstock's quill pointed uphill over .009 in just 2". Add in the length of a drill chuck and the extension outside that chuck of the center drill itself and that center drill's tip would be at least .020-.025 high. So trying to use any center drill would instantly break the tip off it. Then trying to ream anything at all would give a tapered bore even with a straight machine reamer. The only way around that is to then drill, or ream with a the drill or reamer locked down dead straight on the top or cross slide and centered on machines CL until the tailstock can be corrected. Sometimes indicators can also tell you some information you'd just rather not know. :angry:

Pete

LKeithR · May 31, 2015

Butch Lambert said:
First good answer that I have seen on a forum. If they had to be plumb, level, and parallel, you couldn't use them on a ship. Basically it needs to have no twist in the ways...

Yup, level is just a starting point--it's jacking the bed around to get rid of the twist that really matters. Takes a B.C. boy to explain it right...

Gordy Gritters DVD on Chambering

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