Need to make a spider?

Ronniet · Apr 18, 2013

I need a spider to use in my chuck to do some threading and chambering.
Before I waste any material does anyone have one that works well?
And could I ask for any tips or specs on them?
ID, OD, length, screw size , screw spacing ?
I had planned on one with 2 sets of screws in sets of 4 each.
Any information would help to make this better and faster.
Maybe its called a "cathead"?
Thanks
Ron

Anvil Jenkins · Apr 18, 2013

I would not put it in the chuck, I would make it to fit the spindle directly, no matter what type of spindle you have you will get a shorter setup that way. I have seen some pictures (maybe on here) of ones made up to go right into the camlock, maybe it was Speerchucker that posted them ??

But if you have a threaded spindle nose or another type you can do it also. I used Gas Checks for cast bullets on the ends of the screws on the one I made for the left hand side.

Bill

MilGunsmith · Apr 18, 2013

Here is the one I made. It is from TSJC plans.

Ronniet · Apr 18, 2013

Bill, cant do it on the spindle, the thru hole is just bigger than a MT2 taper and the outside threads are only 1.625
I like the plans of the TSJC plans but wonder is 12 screws are overkill and the size 1/2" ?
Possibly make something like that to smaller scale like 3/8" max screws and the ID about 2" or 2.250 ID?
After all working on rifle barrels.
Ron

speerchucker30x3 · Apr 18, 2013

#2 MT is only about .710 so you could only run very light barrels in a double cats head. It would be easyer to work in a steady rest, providing you have enough bed. 36 inch centers is generally the minimum. I do 95% of my chambering and threading between centers and in a steady rest and it works fine.

Ronniet · Apr 18, 2013

speerchucker30x3 said:
#2 MT is only about .710 so you could only run very light barrels in a double cats head. It would be easyer to work in a steady rest, providing you have enough bed. 36 inch centers is generally the minimum. I do 95% of my chambering and threading between centers and in a steady rest and it works fine.

Like with a dead centers and dog plate and steady rest? I have one steady that I modified with bearings on.
How about collet in the HS for the muzzel end?
Indiacate off the breech end?
Ron

MilGunsmith · Apr 18, 2013

Ronniet said:
I like the plans of the TSJC plans but wonder is 12 screws are overkill and the size 1/2" ?

Ron

These plans are for an action truing jig. The 12 holes give you the option of long or short actions, only use 8 screws at a time. I use it for short rifle barrels and pistol barrels. Hold it in a 4-jaw at work. Home, I have a 1.5"-8 threaded backplate that it fits on.

speerchucker30x3 · Apr 18, 2013

Ronniet said:
Like with a dead centers and dog plate and steady rest? I have one steady that I modified with bearings on.
How about collet in the HS for the muzzel end?
Indiacate off the breech end?
Ron

I recut the centers with 60 degree center cutting reamers and do a truing cut on the muzzle and thread area between centers and hold the muzzle in an ER40 collet. Then set up the steady rest with the chamber end on center in the tailstock.

A double cats head would work as well but you would have 14 -16 inch's of barrel hanging out the end.

Long Tom · Apr 18, 2013

This is the one I made; it is direct-mount to my A1-6 spindle. I have since made new tipped screws that have a wee little radius for the barrel to pivot on, rather than the flat-tipped ones shown. The screws are 1/2-20 TPI.

This is overkill, but tooling should be, IMHO.

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3FA31D6F-0EC1-4AF7-A049-B40724DF49A1-217-000000B5AB253329.jpg

keydiverfla · Apr 18, 2013

I think you are asking about something like this?

Ronniet · Apr 19, 2013

speerchucker30x3 said:
I recut the centers with 60 degree center cutting reamers

SpeerChucker, I understood all you wrote but that quote?
Maybe I do but I use a different terminology?
Perhaps you could help me understand that?
Thank you
Ron

speerchucker30x3 · Apr 19, 2013

Ronniet said:
SpeerChucker, I understood all you wrote but that quote?
Maybe I do but I use a different terminology?
Perhaps you could help me understand that?
Thank you
Ron

Follow this link.

PTG 60-Degree Center Reamer 25 to 284 Cal 7mm 4 Pilot Set (.249 .256

This is what I'm describing. They recut the center perfectly to the inside of the bore to give you a centered area to set up from. There was a bit of discussion in here regarding PTGs center cutting reamers and some people whom I have no reason to doubt brought up some problems with them at this time. I think for the time being I would buy JGS or Clymers. They are all pretty much the same design and do the same job. My only complaint with Clymers is that they use snap rings to hold the pilots on and the tiny things drive me nuts. I personally use and have used JGS center cutting reamers for the last 30 years with no concerns. I buy them direct from the manufacturer in sets of three to cover all calibers every couple years or so and I use them to finish crowns as well. They are about $200 per set off the top of my head.

http://www.jgstools.com/mainarea.html

union reek · Apr 19, 2013

I use a Harbor Freight 8x14 lathe with a .81 spindle bore to thread and chamber. I made an outboard spider and a chuck similar to what Long Tom posted. It works for me. I would opt to use a steady instead of a long spider, personally I would want to eliminate any deflection of the barrel when cutting threads.

Bob

precisionworks · Apr 20, 2013

speerchucker30x3 said:
I recut the centers with 60 degree center cutting reamers and do a truing cut on the muzzle and thread area between centers ...

The PTG Center Reamer is top shelf. Superb quality & it works like a charm. Bushing floats on reamer pilot & it takes just a few turns by hand to cut a perfect 60° center in a barrel.

Pacific Tool & Gauge, Inc. - Form Tools - Crown, Breech, C-Bores

Ronniet · Apr 20, 2013

Thanks Speerchucker, I understand now.
After measuring the distance I only have 25.250 of room between dead centers .
This way wont work as I need room for the floating reamer holder and the tread dial hits my lead screw nut on the right end.
So Its going to have to be a cat head/ spider or cathead steady rest?
Ron

speerchucker30x3 · Apr 20, 2013

Ronniet said:
Thanks Speerchucker, I understand now.
After measuring the distance I only have 25.250 of room between dead centers .
This way wont work as I need room for the floating reamer holder and the tread dial hits my lead screw nut on the right end.
So Its going to have to be a cat head/ spider or cathead steady rest?
Ron

Probably a 4 jaw and steady rest is the easiest and run whatever length you can inside the headstock. You will need to get a precision ground rod to insert in the bore from one of the reamer makers and a couple tenth dial indicators and run both indicators on the rod at the same time a couple inch's apart and get them both to read zero at the same time on a slowly turning barrel. It takes a bit of monkeying around to set it up. Remember that being out .0001 inch when dialing in over 2 inch's = .001 inch error at at about 22 inch's and the tenth Mitutoyo indicators I use are advertised as only being accurate to + or - .0001 so even under perfect conditions each one could be running out .0002. I trust them to read equally only to 1/2 thousandths which means about .005 inch error at 22 inch's so use a floating reamer holder if you chamber this way. A lot of people don't understand this but math and trigonometry just are not on your side here.

LBrooks · Apr 20, 2013

Chambering with small spindle hole

I made a 4 screw chuck for a 7X10 HF mini lathe about 20 yrs ago. The hole is small in these machines, but if you are using a #1 or #2 weight sporter barrel it can be made into a fine hunting rifle if you make a spider for the left end of the spindle and a screw chuck. I use a floating reamer holder made just for these small lathes. Could these small lathes make an accurate shooting hunting rifle? Yes ::: I want to try a #3 and see if it will go deep enough into the headstock and be able to chamber. I don't think you need to be within .0001 to have a rifle that will shoot better than most people can hold. My 8 lb rifle with scope will shoot 5rds under .300 in. @100 yds. You can spend all day setting up a barrel and it may not shoot well.

I notice that Grizzly has a spider blank available in the Chuck section. It could save you time in making one.

Bob Pastor II · Apr 24, 2013

Ronniet,

Check your emails.

cockcroft · Apr 26, 2013

Has cam locks threaded into back side to make it as shallow as possible. Total depth is 1.5 in.

Need to make a spider?

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