Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24
  1. #1
    Machinery_E is offline Stainless
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,893

    Default How do you attach a rifling button?

    Trying to pull rifling button through barrel blanks, and can't get the thing to stay on. .357 barrels. Silver soldering them on to the pull rods with a "butt" joint. Got the machine slowed down to a crawl and it still snaps off. Using tapered hole on end of the barrel to start the button. No problem pushing it through, but on the rifling machine wound be easier to pull than push with the way its setup. Is there something I'm missing with the joint design? Silver solder alloy? (Using 50% silver alloy) There sure is alot of force on such a small joint, but there must be a way its done and they don't pop off??????

    Eric

  2. #2
    SmithSolar Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Machinery_E View Post
    Trying to pull rifling button through barrel blanks, and can't get the thing to stay on. .357 barrels. Silver soldering them on to the pull rods with a "butt" joint. Got the machine slowed down to a crawl and it still snaps off. Using tapered hole on end of the barrel to start the button. No problem pushing it through, but on the rifling machine wound be easier to pull than push with the way its setup. Is there something I'm missing with the joint design? Silver solder alloy? (Using 50% silver alloy) There sure is alot of force on such a small joint, but there must be a way its done and they don't pop off??????

    Eric
    What does the rifling button look like
    can you post a photo

    Dave

  3. #3
    Machinery_E is offline Stainless
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,893

  4. #4
    DocAV is offline Aluminum
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Australia Brisbane
    Posts
    125

    Default TC Rifling Buttons

    Most Rifling Buttons are made for use in "Push-through" Hydraulic Rifling machines (whether Factory made or "Hand-Made"); They are Not fixed to the rod, but rotate with the incline of their own "rifling" outline. ( the Push rod also rotates with the same Pitch, to avoid jamming of the button.)

    For a Button to be used in the older "Pull thru" machines (as used originally with Hook cutters) one must have a threaded section or a threaded hole in the Button. That way the Pull rod can be screwed in, and there is less chance of breakage.

    If you are making (short).357 type barrels, why not use a vertical broaching machine ( as used by European Pistol makers (Beretta, etc), rather than Buttoning?

    Regards,
    Doc AV
    AV Ballistics Film Ordnance Services
    Brisbane
    Australia.

  5. #5
    Butch Lambert is offline Stainless
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Poetry Texas USA
    Posts
    1,334

    Default

    Doc,
    I disagree. Shilen pulls buttons and they are silver soldered.
    Butch

  6. #6
    jabezkin is offline Stainless
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    littlestown,pa
    Posts
    1,732

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch Lambert View Post
    Doc,
    I disagree. Shilen pulls buttons and they are silver soldered.
    Butch
    +1

    Silver brazing done right, 125K tensile.

  7. #7
    Machinery_E is offline Stainless
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,893

    Default

    Should be a little more clear, to start with, it was popping off, but it looks like this time around the carbide broke clean off, so must have a good joint.

    I can't go any smaller on the button dimensions or increase the reamed size as the barrels will be out of spec.

    Button is not even starting to "dig in" before it breaks.

    The issue is the supports to keep the rod from bending when you go to push it. Could make those, and adapt them to the machine, but would be easier to just pull the button.

    Right, buttons are pulled too (Thought this was more common?). I just must be missing something on how its done successfully?

    With broaching, hearing from guys that have done it, its alot more involved than button rifling. Expensive tool to start with, and need to keep it sharp or barrel quality starts to suffer.

    Eric

  8. #8
    Eagle_view is offline Aluminum
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Shelton, WA
    Posts
    132

    Default

    The buttons I have are silver soldered into a reamed tapered hole in the end of the pull rod. matching taper on the button & shaft, both are tinned with silver solder and then pressed together while heating the rod. Silver solder (Braze) flows take the heat away and the are stuck together very well. The usually use a special pull rod steel "VASCO MAX Rod" Rod should match the diameter of the front end taper of the button.

    All of the rifle barrels the I have seen being made are made with a pull through rod. It is thought that there is less chance of skipping through the bore by pulling.

    Lowell

  9. #9
    hew
    hew is offline Plastic
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Queensland Australia
    Posts
    31

    Default

    I always thought that pulling was the prefered method when buttoning.

    The other area you might be getting trouble from is with your lube. What are you using for lube? I know that when I was push buttoning barrels there was an arse kicking instore if I forgot to keep the lube up to it coz the friction could nearly stop those buttons dead in their tracks.

  10. #10
    Machinery_E is offline Stainless
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,893

    Default

    Thanks Lowell, interesting on the taper attachment method!

    What are you using for lube?
    Isn't that supposed to be a secret? Using Never Seez, seems to be working great for pushing, but if there's something better than that you can tell me and not have to kill me that would be great! I kind of don't think its a lube problem as its hardly starting before it breaks, but you never know.

    Eric

  11. #11
    Don Nielson is offline Aluminum
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    111

    Default Plating

    You are copper plating the hole first, Right? Don

  12. #12
    Machinery_E is offline Stainless
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,893

    Default

    Hey Don, No, just using copper based never seez.

    Eric

  13. #13
    Butch Lambert is offline Stainless
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Poetry Texas USA
    Posts
    1,334

    Default

    Mr. Neilson is correct. Copper plating works great. Never Seize seems awful gritty.
    Butch

  14. #14
    Alpacca Fortyfive is offline Stainless
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Leinster, Ireland
    Posts
    1,190

    Default

    Merle Walker's patent for button rifling suggests copper plating the bore.

    i guess a few seconds of slopping acidified copper sulphate solution around in a well de-greased bore will do that, and a good wash with ammonia will take it (and your sinuses) out again afterwards.

    Moly sulphide and lead carbonate are both reckoned to be very good high pressure lubricants, though they'd need to be very fine grained to get caught under the button, rather than just being snow plowed along in front of it.

    I guess (lots of guessing today) that your copper anti seize is just getting swept along in front of the button.

  15. #15
    biometrics's Avatar
    biometrics is offline Cast Iron
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    318

    Default

    Here is the tech support email address for the manufacturer's web site that you posted...

    tech@dmetool.com

    I am sure they can guide you... pulling the button is what I recall...

    -John

  16. #16
    Butch Lambert is offline Stainless
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Poetry Texas USA
    Posts
    1,334

    Default

    I thought it was Mike Walker,Mr. Remington, that was the person behind the button rifling.
    Butch

  17. #17
    deltaenterprizes is offline Hot Rolled
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Longview,TX
    Posts
    984

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch Lambert View Post
    Doc,
    I disagree. Shilen pulls buttons and they are silver soldered.
    Butch
    Thanks Butch, I was trying to remember how they did it, it has been a while since I saw their operation.

  18. #18
    rws
    rws is offline Cast Iron
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    301

    Default

    I do believe Hart pushes their buttons. No pun intended.....

  19. #19
    Butch Lambert is offline Stainless
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Poetry Texas USA
    Posts
    1,334

    Default

    Hart does push their buttons.
    Butch

  20. #20
    Alpacca Fortyfive is offline Stainless
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Leinster, Ireland
    Posts
    1,190

    Default

    Hi Butch,
    The name on the US patent is Merle H Walker, and he assigned the patent to Remmington. I''m not sure if he generally went by the name of "Mike", or whether they were two different people. Anyone around here know?

    US Pat No is: 2,383,356.

    I haven't worked out how to view tiff images on this web browser yet, so I can't link to the document at the USPTO, but a pat no search should get you there in a few seconds.

    The patent shows a schematic set up for pushing the button, with a lot of steady supports for the push rod.

    I gather that Hart are one of the few places using pushing. others pull.


    old joke:
    a cop in a nearby (and therefore deeply, deeply despised) village finds one of the (even more inbred than usual) villagers acting suspiciously, late at night. He's dragging a long length of string behind him.

    Cop asks:
    "What you dragging that string around for Michael?"

    inbred local replies:
    "If you're so damn clever, you try pushing it!"

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •