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06-11-2010, 05:40 PM #1
How do you attach a rifling button?
Trying to pull rifling button through barrel blanks, and can't get the thing to stay on. .357 barrels. Silver soldering them on to the pull rods with a "butt" joint. Got the machine slowed down to a crawl and it still snaps off. Using tapered hole on end of the barrel to start the button. No problem pushing it through, but on the rifling machine wound be easier to pull than push with the way its setup. Is there something I'm missing with the joint design? Silver solder alloy? (Using 50% silver alloy) There sure is alot of force on such a small joint, but there must be a way its done and they don't pop off??????
06-11-2010, 07:59 PM #2SmithSolar Guest
06-11-2010, 09:37 PM #3
Drill Masters Eldorado Tool - Tool manufacturer for gundrilling applications, drills, drilling, liquid cooled drills, metal types, plastics, composite materials
You've seen one, now what to do to make it stick on the rod?
06-11-2010, 10:49 PM #4
TC Rifling Buttons
Most Rifling Buttons are made for use in "Push-through" Hydraulic Rifling machines (whether Factory made or "Hand-Made"); They are Not fixed to the rod, but rotate with the incline of their own "rifling" outline. ( the Push rod also rotates with the same Pitch, to avoid jamming of the button.)
For a Button to be used in the older "Pull thru" machines (as used originally with Hook cutters) one must have a threaded section or a threaded hole in the Button. That way the Pull rod can be screwed in, and there is less chance of breakage.
If you are making (short).357 type barrels, why not use a vertical broaching machine ( as used by European Pistol makers (Beretta, etc), rather than Buttoning?
AV Ballistics Film Ordnance Services
06-12-2010, 04:46 AM #5
I disagree. Shilen pulls buttons and they are silver soldered.
06-12-2010, 05:12 AM #6
06-12-2010, 06:02 AM #7
Should be a little more clear, to start with, it was popping off, but it looks like this time around the carbide broke clean off, so must have a good joint.
I can't go any smaller on the button dimensions or increase the reamed size as the barrels will be out of spec.
Button is not even starting to "dig in" before it breaks.
The issue is the supports to keep the rod from bending when you go to push it. Could make those, and adapt them to the machine, but would be easier to just pull the button.
Right, buttons are pulled too (Thought this was more common?). I just must be missing something on how its done successfully?
With broaching, hearing from guys that have done it, its alot more involved than button rifling. Expensive tool to start with, and need to keep it sharp or barrel quality starts to suffer.
06-12-2010, 08:58 AM #8
The buttons I have are silver soldered into a reamed tapered hole in the end of the pull rod. matching taper on the button & shaft, both are tinned with silver solder and then pressed together while heating the rod. Silver solder (Braze) flows take the heat away and the are stuck together very well. The usually use a special pull rod steel "VASCO MAX Rod" Rod should match the diameter of the front end taper of the button.
All of the rifle barrels the I have seen being made are made with a pull through rod. It is thought that there is less chance of skipping through the bore by pulling.
06-13-2010, 03:54 PM #9
I always thought that pulling was the prefered method when buttoning.
The other area you might be getting trouble from is with your lube. What are you using for lube? I know that when I was push buttoning barrels there was an arse kicking instore if I forgot to keep the lube up to it coz the friction could nearly stop those buttons dead in their tracks.
06-13-2010, 06:34 PM #10
Thanks Lowell, interesting on the taper attachment method!
What are you using for lube?
06-13-2010, 07:00 PM #11
You are copper plating the hole first, Right? Don
06-14-2010, 03:56 AM #12
Hey Don, No, just using copper based never seez.
06-14-2010, 05:07 AM #13
Mr. Neilson is correct. Copper plating works great. Never Seize seems awful gritty.
06-14-2010, 06:19 AM #14
Merle Walker's patent for button rifling suggests copper plating the bore.
i guess a few seconds of slopping acidified copper sulphate solution around in a well de-greased bore will do that, and a good wash with ammonia will take it (and your sinuses) out again afterwards.
Moly sulphide and lead carbonate are both reckoned to be very good high pressure lubricants, though they'd need to be very fine grained to get caught under the button, rather than just being snow plowed along in front of it.
I guess (lots of guessing today) that your copper anti seize is just getting swept along in front of the button.
06-14-2010, 12:11 PM #15
06-14-2010, 03:47 PM #16
I thought it was Mike Walker,Mr. Remington, that was the person behind the button rifling.
06-14-2010, 04:44 PM #17
06-15-2010, 07:57 AM #18
I do believe Hart pushes their buttons. No pun intended.....
06-15-2010, 05:16 PM #19
Hart does push their buttons.
06-16-2010, 03:27 AM #20
The name on the US patent is Merle H Walker, and he assigned the patent to Remmington. I''m not sure if he generally went by the name of "Mike", or whether they were two different people. Anyone around here know?
US Pat No is: 2,383,356.
I haven't worked out how to view tiff images on this web browser yet, so I can't link to the document at the USPTO, but a pat no search should get you there in a few seconds.
The patent shows a schematic set up for pushing the button, with a lot of steady supports for the push rod.
I gather that Hart are one of the few places using pushing. others pull.
a cop in a nearby (and therefore deeply, deeply despised) village finds one of the (even more inbred than usual) villagers acting suspiciously, late at night. He's dragging a long length of string behind him.
"What you dragging that string around for Michael?"
inbred local replies:
"If you're so damn clever, you try pushing it!"