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  1. #1
    dvice is offline Hot Rolled
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    Default identify this old shotgun!!

    can anyone give me some info on this single barrel shotgun...no name, but it has lots of proof marks. and a serial number( both barrel and action)..they are either english or american i think( the proof marks that is)





    there is no forened on the gun and it doesnt look like there is a place to attach one on the barrel. the buttstock has a cheekpiece , kinda like a german make..you know straight and sharp, like a mannlicher style.

    the barrel has two lugs one large and one small that engage slots in the action..and a large blued C shaped spring hold the lug in place...

    id like to know the maker and a model maybe

    thanks

    dvice

  2. #2
    Gazz is offline Hot Rolled
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    Pictures of the proof marks would help to at least identify where the gun was sold. Also a picture of the complete gun would be useful. From what I see, it does look Euro in nature, and a bit unique! It looks like the entire barrel is removed from the action to load which would certainly be cumbersome unless you have three or more hands.

  3. #3
    dvice is offline Hot Rolled
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    Ill take a closer look at the proof marks...thinking british, now since I have looked at the back of my Blue Book Of Gun Values...which has a few pages of proof marks( didnt know that before I posted..) they only say what area the marks are from, not the maker..

    and yes the barrel is removed to load the shell and extract the shell!! its old!! maybe one of the ealier breech loaded shotguns!

    the stock looks to be german...the cheek piece really looks like those used on JP Sauer guns.

    bob

  4. #4
    dvice is offline Hot Rolled
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    I looked up the proof marks and its belgian for sure...looks to be made in the 20's from the time line of various marks...one time lines ending in the 20's and one starting in the 20's, and the gun having BOTH...



    there is a small symbol that has L&C with a word underneath , looks like "Bilge"

    bob

  5. #5
    lazarus is offline Hot Rolled
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    Might be an old punt gun, shouldn't need more than one shot, then it gets dropped in the "bilge" while you collect your keep.

  6. #6
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    Default

    Without seeing the proof marks its impossible to tell. I doubt very much that its a cottage industry gun. Photos of the makers name and ALL proofs might shed some light.

  7. #7
    DocAV is offline Aluminum
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    Default bayonet socket Shotgun

    Belgian Proofed ...I can see the "Perron" ( tower over chevrons) mark on the receiver photo.
    The other marks " LC" are actually "ELG"
    and "Bilge" is actually "Liege"

    Belgian Made, and Proofed.
    What Gauge? Looks like a 12 ga, but may be larger (if it is really a "PUNT GUN"...The stock looks too good for such a Piece...it is meant to be fired from the shoulder, not from a sviwel on a Punt. And PGs were usually 8 or 4 gauge, or even 2 gauge.)

    Nice one.
    Regards,
    Doc AV
    AV Ballistics.

  8. #8
    lazarus is offline Hot Rolled
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    DocAV,

    With no bore size, and the Bilge stamp note, I couldn't resist the punt gun line. I just couldn't figure out how to work in the reason there is no front stock is cause you slide it in the yoke and use it for an oar. That wouldn't work if you threw it in the bilge.

    Ben

  9. #9
    lazarus is offline Hot Rolled
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    I like unusual guns like this one. It looks to be in good shape. Hopefully someone from the other side of the pond will have some info for you.

    Good luck with this one. Let us know if you find out anything.

    Ben

  10. #10
    dvice is offline Hot Rolled
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    I was at Orvis's Game Fair Weekend in Millbrook Ny and walked around with my gun..

    at this point I know its belgian from the proof marks... but the L & C in a slight arm and what looks to be Bilge under it....( definatley NOT Lige!!) the first letter is a capitol B!

    I know its 16 gauge...it has 16.7 stamped a few places on the barrel... which is the bore in millimeters. = approx .658" = 16 gauge.

    well i talked to a guy that several people suggested would know, and he says it is a belgian poachers gun. he doesnt recognize the maker...but it was made around 1905 ish he says.

    poachers wanted breakdown guns to hide easier...

    now to figure who exactly L&C are..

    bob

  11. #11
    augoldminer is offline Hot Rolled
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    Photos d'armes de collection if you have the Google toolbar just hit translate and you get this site in English.
    What's up w/ "Belgian Proof Marks"? - THR
    Shotgunworld.com • View topic - Belgian Shotgun

    L&C could be the mark of who ever proofed the shotgun(proofhouse) or a number of other people.

    The way its built it may not have a makers mark on it as many of the cheap guns of the time did not.
    But all guns made in Belgian had to be proofed to be sold.

  12. #12
    bayez is offline Plastic
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    I don't think that old shotgun is that cheaply made.Appears the action is a boxlock similar to the perc. screwbarrel boot pistols.The barrel may well have Belgian proof marks,but the firearm may well have been built in France or Eng,etc.Maybe an early attempt at building a breach loader by someone familiar with muzzleloading firearms.The stock to action fitting,cheek rest,locking spring,etc.are all well done.Maybe Germany,a breachloading Jeager.fowling piece transition.Quien Sabe?

  13. #13
    dvice is offline Hot Rolled
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    I agree the gun seems to be a well made piece...look at the buttstock..cheaply made guns wouldnt have that nice and a stock and the fir of the wood to the action is another place that shows a well made gun... the metal machining is nice as well... its just a simple design , which makes you think its cheap...


    bob

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