Lathe SB 13" vs 10L

I currently own both lathes. 1st is a fully restored 1951 toolroom 10L with a taper, fully tooled, and 4.5' bed.

The other is a fairly well tooled 1968 tool room SB 13" with a 6' bed, so 40" CTC. Hardened bed, in good shape, but I have not restores it yet.

Other than size, they are both equally capable. I know the CTC difference, the spindle length, and speed difference. And lastly the weight diff.

If I had to keep only one, is there a big advantage to one over the other as far as doing gunsmith work?

Qualifier: I've been building custom rifles for 10 years and learned under 2 master for several years. Not new to building high end rifles, just trying to decided if the day comes I need to sell one, which it would be. I have not used them both enough on barrels to compare.

What about spindle inside diameter? Is one significantly larger than the other?

If you do all your work through the headstock then the 10. Spindle holes should be the same. I have a 13 looking for a 10.

Check the spindle bearings. Put a dial indicator on the chuck and pry it up with a 2X4 or whatever. If you get much more than .002" movement, you have a problem. The bronze bearings need a little clearance for the oil to circulate through, but not much. If you have not been religious about lubrication, the bearings are probably worn.

Bill

JLarsson said:

What about spindle inside diameter? Is one significantly larger than the other?

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They are the same.

9100 said:

Check the spindle bearings. Put a dial indicator on the chuck and pry it up with a 2X4 or whatever. If you get much more than .002" movement, you have a problem. The bronze bearings need a little clearance for the oil to circulate through, but not much. If you have not been religious about lubrication, the bearings are probably worn.

Bill

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Bearings on both machines are perfect. My heavy 10 could be in a museum and the 13 has been thoroughly gone through and has only minimal wear on the cross slide and compound. I've owned about 20 SB lathes of various sizes, so nothing new. Even if it was over 0.002", pull a shim lamination and you are back in business.

wife has been harping me to sell one, but I'm thinking for the amount of work I put into both machines and their condition, I would have a hard time replacing ether one. If I needed to sell one, I would still need to turn barrels, so weighing my potential options.

I have a 13x5 and would love the extra length, so sell me the 13x6. A 10L is a nice machine, but the 13 is better in just about every way.

spitfire_er said:

They are the same.

Even if it was over 0.002", pull a shim lamination and you are back in business.

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True, I was thinking more about cases where they were allowed to run dry and really wore. Since you have owned that many, you no doubt have seen ones where you could lift the chuck by hand and feel the play.

In almost 40 years I removed one pair of shims on my 14 1/2" SB and the clearance was about .0025" when I sold it. Not in the same class as my Sheldon or Monarch, but a lot of value for the dollar. It earned back the $2700 it cost me over and over and over.

Bill

I don't think anyone has ever been disappointed in having a bigger, heavier lathe as long as spindle speed is comparable. Sounds like they are setup about the same. I would lean toward a D1-4 nose over a threaded nose. Can't remember if you can easily do a 20" barrel in a 13 through the headstock but if you are OK doing them between centers, so what. I'd go with the 13" all else being equal. You should be able to take bigger roughing cuts when needed and if you have to profile a blank the extra length and mass of the 13 should help.

Having said that, I'd hold on to both as long as you can and don't absolutely need the space. Nice to have a second machine to use when the first one is in the middle of a job with a complex setup, (ie..dialed in barrel).

is there not two different 13" S.B.'s? A 3 pulley and a 4 pulley headstock?

quasi said:

is there not two different 13" S.B.'s? A 3 pulley and a 4 pulley headstock?

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There are more than two different configurations over the years, but that is one difference. Mine has a three-cone pulley, but most all I've seen have a four-cone pulley. I don't care really since I have a VFD.

I also have a VFD and the 4 pulley set up on the 13. I have a 3 phase motor for my heavy 10, but have yet to swap it over.

I would go with the 13" for heavier work, but the 10" is probably handier since the headstock is shorter.

Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk

Your 13" lathe probably has flame hardened ways. That alone would bias me toward the 13, as it is much less prone to wear. I use a 13 in my shop.

Bill Jacobs
Bolt&Barrel Gunsmithing, LLC

Clemson said:

Your 13" lathe probably has flame hardened ways. That alone would bias me toward the 13, as it is much less prone to wear. I use a 13 in my shop.

Bill Jacobs
Bolt&Barrel Gunsmithing, LLC

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The 13 does have FHW's. However the 10l has been ground, scraped, and turcite added, so it's not going to wear.

On a side note I think I found out why the wife has been hounding me to get rid of it. The other day I was in the garage and she mentioned that she wants a fridge where the 13 is sitting. So I asked, " is that why you want me to sell it". She looked at me and said " I want a fridge there" so maybe I just need to move it and I'll be golden! In all fairness she's been awesome when I comes to me and my machjnes and all the room I take up.

Spit, I've had south bends from 9" to 16" including a Heavy 10, and my preference is for the 13. Did quite a bit of good smithing work in the H10, and it is capable for its size, but If I chose to have only one unit it would be a well tooled 13.

I used both the 10L and the 13" at Trinidad while I was there for 2.5 years as a gunsmithing student.

After having used both of them, here's what I reckon are the pluses/minuses of both machines:

10L:

Pro:
- shorter through the headstock
- lighter means easier to move (if you have to move a machine)
- finer feeds possible
- taller machine off the floor (which is important for taller operators)

Cons:
- Light machine, with all the issues in taking heavy cuts or getting nice finishes
- fewer speeds possible (vs. the four-position 13's)
- low HP motor, which limited the depth of cut or feed the machine can take
- spendy to acquire; 10L's seem to be bid up to absurd valuations

13:
Pro:
- heavier machine all the way 'round; it can take some serious cuts
- better surface finishes possible (at least I found it much easier to get a nice cut on a 13)
- bigger HP motor; enough motor to take some substantial cuts if you need to
- heavier tailstock

Cons:
- Lacks the super-fine feeds of the 10L
- lower machine, means that taller operators spend lots of time hunched over
- heavier to move


If I were offered both, and all I was ever going to do was gunsmithing, I'd have to think hard about which one I'd prefer. If it were a contest for gunsmithing and general machining, I'd take the 13, hands down. If I were doing gunsmithing and small fiddly stuff like model building, etc - then I'd take the 10L.