Winchester Model 70 Rant

Finally decided to do a custom rifle for myself, Winchester model 70 in 7MM Mauser, tapered octagon barrel, nice figured wood, engraved etc.

Well I Picked up an M 70 in 7mm about a year ago, standard LW model, early 80’s manufacture. Took it out, shot it …accuracy was about minute of hillside (actually closer to 12 inches). No biggie, wasn’t planning on keeping the barrel anyway.

So year later. it’s now time to get serious about this project, barrel is about done; stock is ready for final inletting. So I disassemble the M 70, what a POS, crappy machining, aluminum parts, poor fit, and the worse part… looks like they couldn’t get the bedding right so they put card stock under the receiver..And this was factory work!!

After disassembly the only original parts that I’m keeping are the receiver, bolt, magazine box and bolt release lever… all the other parts are true crap.

Geesh no wonder Winchester went under, the Model 70 was their bread & butter and they couldn’t /wouldn’t even do that right.

Mike

Is this typical of the the ones they are building today, or just an 80's vintage thing?

I'm no expert on M-70's. I did work as a gunsmith for about 2 years in the late 80's. I saw way more Reminton 700's come across my bench for repair. I can only remeber someone with a rough chamber, I think a broken saftey, and I had to dissaemble the bolt for something. I didn't notice any parts that were horable. I think from '65 to the early '80s were a low point for the M-70. In the early 80's they imporved the stocks. I remeber handling a featherweight in a gunshop. It looked nice. In the late 80's they added the claw extractor back on certian models.
I did do a stock on my brothers pre-war M-70 in .22 K-Hornet. The barrel was custom, and he bought it with a post-64 stock. That stock looked horable. I was offered $500 for the action alone. I did restock it in a nice bastone walnut, probablly AAA or a bit better. Checkered it and it looked sharp. I'm not saying Winchester didn't cheapen parts etc. They did go to powered metal fed ramps and lifter on their lever action. I had to replace a few of those. I never saw a bolt handle come of a M-70. I can't say the same for a Remington M-700.
Tom

I hear you, some of those m70d were HARBLE

In all fairness I have a little winchester trapper from 79 that is machined tight as a drum, but it really is a crap shoot since quality depends what union slob felt motivated to put some effort into his work.

There are some good post 64s out there, there are some bad ones, most are just normal, theres nothing special about them.

Nothing Wrong

There is nothing wrong with an M-70 or Remington 700 that a good Mauser 98 won't cure.

Sorry just had to.

Chuck38 said:

There is nothing wrong with an M-70 or Remington 700 that a good Mauser 98 won't cure.

Sorry just had to.

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I like Mausers too. A lot of features, not found on others. And not just the angle cut on the extractor claw. Actaully that is found on the Arisaka and I think the Mannlicher.
There are some features found on the others that are better though. Three screw bedding. The three position wing safety. The latter M-70's are suppose to have a an anti-bind feature. I haven't looked at one. Its suppose to work. The rib on the bolt of the M-98, usually the fit is to sloppy to do much.
Tom

"... aluminum parts ..."

Found on the Featherweight M70, only.

The standard weight M70s had steel trigger guards and magazine covers.

hickstick_10 said:

but it really is a crap shoot since quality depends what union slob felt motivated to put some effort into his work.
.

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Slightly off topic but...
I don't know what the situation is at the factory these days labor wise, but Winchester was ANYTHING but union in its heyday. They were fond of "inside contracting".
Check out "Winchester" by Harold F. Williamson
Good read about the corporate mindset of the company from it's beginning to just after WWII.

kendog said:

Slightly off topic but...
I don't know what the situation is at the factory these days labor wise, but Winchester was ANYTHING but union in its heyday. They were fond of "inside contracting".
Check out "Winchester" by Harold F. Williamson
Good read about the corporate mindset of the company from it's beginning to just after WWII.

Click to expand...

Hmm I wont say your wrong right off the bat, but im almost POSITIVE at the time of its closing the new haven plant had a union.

Olin sold the company in the 70s to USRAC after a strike by the machinist union.

The key word here is "hey day" and that certainly wasn't post 64, they may have been non union in its heyday (which may have contributed to the better quality of firearms).

peterh5322 said:

"... aluminum parts ..."

Found on the Featherweight M70, only.

The standard weight M70s had steel trigger guards and magazine covers.

Click to expand...

One of my books at home states that the post '64 to '68's had aliminum floor plates. I don't know if the is correct or not. It was a major customer problem as far as percieved quality. So, in '68 they again redesigned the M-70. This is when the added in the anti- bind feature. Also, they went back to steel floor plates, but used a 'black' chrome on them. I don't know if they retained the anti-bind when they made the latter claw or mauser type extractor recievers. I saw one other action that had that feature, I think a Hasquavarna action.
Tom

"One of my books at home states that the post '64 to '68's had aliminum floor plates. I don't know if the is correct or not. It was a major customer problem as far as percieved quality."


Yeah....never understood gun nuts and steel. Every other high tech sport puts aluminum or magnesium anywhere they can to drop weight. Do it on a featherweight rifle and immediately have the same guys that were complaining about weight crying foul.....

Quality?
Hey, it is a factory gun. That means a real crap-shoot as to fit and function. Factory gun means you are basically buying a kit, not a finished product. Why that attitude has to pervade the firearms industry is beyond me. It is not just Winchester, either. I had a totally hosed-up "Custom shop" Remmy 40-XC that was an unusable POS.

Buyer beware.

Yours was a post 64 model from your description. The valued model 70s are the pre 64 and in particular the pre war 70s. The new models are now again being made in the controlled feed version but they are slightly different in lengths. Even the pre 64 models were rather crude in some of their finishing. When building a custom rifle I always lap the lugs and do numerous finishing touches on the action.
The main reason the model 70 was so popular was the simple modified mauser design. The controlled feed is another reason and one that was lost on the post 64 models till recently.
Model 70's and Mausers are very reliable when properly built. The large extractor and controlled feed make them the choice for dangerous game. There are stronger actions but for all around funtionality the Mauser and modified Mausers like the Model 70s are hard to beat!

"One of my books at home states that the post '64 to '68's had aliminum floor plates. I don't know if the is correct or not."

I've only owned pre-'64 ... but post-WW-II ... M70s.

And, amongst pre-'64 M70s, it is my understanding that the so-called "Featherweight" model had aluminum guards, and that all non-"Featherweight" models had steel guards.

Alas, the name "M70" applies to quite a number of distinct versions.

Yes I agree that a pre 64 would have been better, and possibly a Model 70 classic. There were a couple of reasons that I chose this rifle:

First was caliber, I wanted a Model 70 in 7mm Mauser. 7mms are very expensive in a pre 64 (made only a few) and don’t think they made them in the classic series.

I have a good friend who was a Winchester factory engraver, wanted to get one that was made during the time frame that she worked there. She will eventually engrave this with a Winchester pattern.

Ran across this one at a show a couple of years ago, picked it up…a round to it project.

As I posted earlier, poorly made rifle, and using card stock to supplement the bedding???/

Anyway, frame face has been trued, the lugs lapped, new one piece steel floor plate /trigger guard, and now sporting a 24 inch tapered octagon barrel.

I still need to final fit the stock, and install the express sights. I’m seriously considering matting the top flat of the barrel.

When all said & done, it will have a nice piece of wood, hopefully have just the right amount of engraving, the barrel & frame will be rust blued, the bottom metal, grip cap and buttplate will be Color Case Hardened, and all screws will be either charcoal or nitre blued. Sporting a decent scope with EAW quick release mounts.

If it turns out nice I’ll try and post pictures.

Mike Hunter
Hunter Restorations
Hunter Restorations – Color Case Hardening, Winchester Restorations

Sounds nice, went to your website. Looks like you do some nice work.
So you were just ranting! Now I understand.