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O. T. Artillery Shell

Luddite

Aluminum
Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Location
Michigan
I know this might be off topic, but as you will see, I NEED an answer. Please.

I have an artillery shell. No projectile, just the empty brass case. Big-ass thing about 24 inches long.
The markings on the bottom are:
90mm - M19 1944 Lot GL 1 - 38

What I would call the primer (pressed into the middle of the bottom) appears to have not been struck. On the inside, there is a long rod leading away from the "primer". It is about 9 inches long, and approximately 1/2 inch diameter. What is this rod? I am suspicious.

Thanks in advance for any help. I will be away from the computer for a while. Got a few outside chores to get done.

Luddite
 
I know this might be off topic, but as you will see, I NEED an answer. Please.

I have an artillery shell. No projectile, just the empty brass case. Big-ass thing about 24 inches long.
The markings on the bottom are:
90mm - M19 1944 Lot GL 1 - 38

What I would call the primer (pressed into the middle of the bottom) appears to have not been struck. On the inside, there is a long rod leading away from the "primer". It is about 9 inches long, and approximately 1/2 inch diameter. What is this rod? I am suspicious.

Thanks in advance for any help. I will be away from the computer for a while. Got a few outside chores to get done.

Luddite

I'm an art'y man...current job duties mostly consist of crater analysis and forward observation.

One of two possible answers...you either have a decommissioned shell that is inert...or you have someone's war souvenir.

I'm not EOD, though I do have training regarding the use and implementation of explosives with regard to artillery.

Do you want to keep this shell? If so...you need to find a secure location to ding the primer. The open end of the shell needs to be pointing away from the ground or anything that you wouldn't want to hurt or break. Secure it with a chain vise or similar. Use a rounded chisel about 1/4" diameter and pop it with a drilling hammer. Hit it firmly and squarely. I suggest wearing ear-muffs.

If you don't care if you ever see the shell again, call your local police/sheriffs department and tell them you have an empty artillery shell CASING that you want to dispose of...do not say you have a bomb, etc. Only that it is an EMPTY artillery shell casing. If you're lucky they will return it after bomb squad has defused it. If you're not, you will never see it again. Be prepared to answer ALOT of questions if you go this route.
 
The rod inside the casing carries the flame from the priming compound into the powder charge. If the primer has been expended, this tube should be dark and crusty looking. I am not familiar with the M19, but it is possible that this round is electrically fired. If true, there would be little or no indention on the primer. Unknown items of ordnance are just that -unknown-. Don't bet your health or life on an artifact. Regards, Clark
 
As Clark mentioned, the rod allows the primer flame to get into the powder charge.

Just because the primer isn't struck doesn't mean it wasn't fired electrically or deactivated chemically and is still live. Years ago you could get all kinds of empty cases through military surplus places and they were all deactivated.

I'd suggest not calling the police. In this day and age, police shut down entire city blocks because a cardboard box is sitting on the sidewalk.

Folks, this isn't a hand grenade. If it is live, it's a large primer.

Personally I wouldn't worry about it.

Steve.
 
Hello again. Thanks everyone for the answers so far. I know a little more than I did this morning. But the extra knowledge brings up another question. The rod inside the shell is not hollow. Any new comments?

I do want to keep this thing if I can be sure it won't hurt anyone. Thanks again.

Luddite
 
From what I could dig up your round was used in M26 tanks. Any chance we can see a photo? Markings on the primer?

That will help tremendously in determining if it's an inert primer.

(Sorry but my expertise only goes back to ordinance used since the Vietnam era, all that old stuff has been long since decommissioned.)
 
luddite
i am an old arty man my self 105's
what i would do if worried about detonating , would take kerosine and motor oil mix together pour inside of the cannister and let set for a week maybe and it will be inert.
i do not know if your particular cannister has a screw in primer or pressed in but in any event i would think that it would be safe to remove. batw
 
luddite
i am an old arty man my self 105's
what i would do if worried about detonating , would take kerosine and motor oil mix together pour inside of the cannister and let set for a week maybe and it will be inert.
i do not know if your particular cannister has a screw in primer or pressed in but in any event i would think that it would be safe to remove. batw

That's what I was wondering...some of those shells use press in, some use screw in. If it was as simple as steel=screw-in, brass=press-in, something could be done about it. To be honest, I don't see a functioning primer being a solid rod...sounds like an inert to me.

I know on the 105's they have a hollow rod, the primer is inserted in the butt, like a shotgun round.

One nice thing about the big guns (155) is that we don't have to mess around with shells, just heavy-ass rounds and green-bag/white-bag, tie 'er up, throw 'er in, let 'er rip! :D
 
307,

Thanks. You asked if there were any markings on the primer. I was going to say no, but had another look, and saw I missed them earlier. They are quite small. The markings are:

KOP - 4 - 55
M28A2
1943

The primer looks like it MIGHT have a very small impression in it.

Looking inside again at the rod, I see that it appears to have a plug in the end. It is slotted for a screwdriver. Does this information help you guys any? Thanks again.

Luddite
 
It's odd that your primer would be dated before your shell casing...

All I've been able to learn about the shell system so far is that they use flashless primers.

Any chance you can manage to unscrew that plug?
 
Why is that odd? It was made during WW2. The primers and cases may have even been made by different companies.

The 90mm was used in the M26 tank but also in the 90mm anti-aircraft gun.

Steve.
 
I don't think I want to mess with trying to unscrew the plug. I think I'll leave well enough alone in this case. Thanks again.

Luddite
 
While I'm sure it would wake up the baby if it went off in the next room, you are not talking about a stick of dynamite here and if it hasn't gone off in the last 66 years you probably are safe for another half century. If you really want to be safe fill it with plastic peanuts then a layer of paper towel and 1/2 inch of epoxy.

Or you can prop up a propane torch in the back yard and have it playing on the primer, light it and go do something else for 20 minutes. If it doesn't pop in that time you are probably pretty safe.

And if it does go off you have a pretty cool story to tell.
 
While I'm sure it would wake up the baby if it went off in the next room, you are not talking about a stick of dynamite here and if it hasn't gone off in the last 66 years you probably are safe for another half century. If you really want to be safe fill it with plastic peanuts then a layer of paper towel and 1/2 inch of epoxy.

Or you can prop up a propane torch in the back yard and have it playing on the primer, light it and go do something else for 20 minutes. If it doesn't pop in that time you are probably pretty safe.

And if it does go off you have a pretty cool story to tell.

Thanks MarkW, you helped making my point...

These munitions were built in factories manned by people with 8th grade & less educations and house-wives during the war...if they can assemble the damn things in a reasonably safe manner in a factory filled to the brim with primers and the ingredients for making the contents of the primers, I'm pretty sure a safety conscious machinist old-timer can disassemble one in the comfort of his shop in relative safety.
 
M28A 2 Primer Assy.

If you havent already looked closely at the fire tube sides in the casing, see if it is sealed or if the interior of the tube is visible with a bright light. most have holes up the side of the tube and were sealed with lead foil of some type. If you can see into the fire tube from the side, its inert. Mirror and brite light...

The M28 priming mechanism is percussion initiated, and was/is still used in many casings. It is a Gas Checked system that has the actual primer under the surface that you have indicated has a "small dent" in it. This system keeps the high pressure in the case from blowing the firing pin back out of the breech block. This was common in the little AT guns (25&37mm) until the gas checked ammo came into use.

The primer initiates the black powder charge in the fire tube, which ignites the main charge more uniformly. Keeps the primer from moving the main slow burning powder (7lbs) into the bore before its fully ignited.

I doubt that the case is of any danger, they are quite common and if its brass, fairly expensive. So, empty fire tube, small dent in the gas check, equals inert M28A2 initiator.. If your near Phoenix next weekend I know some guys that reload them and would probably make an offer !!

66yrs, damn things older than me by a couple years.
 
M28A2 primer is a percussion primer, 300 grains of black powder in the tube.

Not a half a stick of Dynamite, but not to be played with either

The M19 Case is part of Complete shell 90 MM M71, M82, and M77 Replaced earlier M58.

Used in 90mm AA Gun M2, M1, M1A1,

Also used in the 90 mm Gun M3, on Gun Motor Carriage T71 and M36. M48 Tank, Gun SP M56.

There are probably a couple live big gun owners, that would L$O$V$E to have it.
 
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Dam I miss artillery talk. My dad had a 240. Battery, my brother was a Baytery CO in the 82nd Airborne. I just supplied 8 inch and 155 rounds of the implosion amd gun assembly type.
If the OP is worried about unexploded oednance, my dad tells about burning off the unused charges after firing the 240.
Got to visit Watervliet..........
 
Those empty artillery shell casings make really nice brass lamp bases when polished bright... would look great in a man cave as a reading light next to the machinist bedside reader books...
 








 
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