revolver cylinder material and machining process

59flatbedford · Nov 15, 2008

well im new here but i have some questions that i was hoping you guys could help me out with. im looking at converting a ruger super black hawk in 44mag to a wildcat catridge me and my dad came up with(44 special necked down to .308). In order to do this i am planning on making a new cylinder. so question 1. what type of steel should i make the cylinder out of to stand up to the pressure of a round like this? question 2. how would i mill the cylinder out and get it timed up and all of that? im guessing an indexing head would be the best and cut all the holes in one set up to ensure they are all straight to one another but what kinda tooling would work to cut the shoulder and such. thanks for any help.

RWO · Nov 15, 2008

You can buy a cylinder blank at Bowen Classic Arms. The outside is already precision machined and the chamber holes are pilot drilled. Get yourself a copy of Jerry Kuhnhausen's book "The Ruger Single Action Revolvers". He shows how to machine the chambers in situ and details the frame modifications necessary to get maximum accuracy.

You will need a lathe, vertical mill, frame wrench, barrel vise, barrel blank, cylinder blank, chamber reamer, various drills and centercutting end mills. In other words, a fairly well equipped machine shop.

What you are attempting to do is usually done by custom pistol smiths with years of experience and lots of purpose built tools and jigs. You can do it, but don't be surprised if you make some mistakes and have to buy some extra parts along the way.

RWO

cheechako · Nov 15, 2008

59

You should also talk to shooters and pistolsmiths who have made this type of wildcat cartridge before. Bottlenecked designs are not the best for revolvers. They tend to set back upon firing and jam up the cylinder. The 44 case necked down is not a new wildcat and you may be able to find someone who has worked with it before. I'm not saying that yours will not work, but do a little asking around first. You may save yourself some grief in the long run.

Good luck with your project.

Ray

59flatbedford · Nov 15, 2008

well thanks guys i am aware of the problems of necked cases in revolvers but figured that id give it a try just for fun. i will check out the cylinder blanks for sure but just for referance what kind of steel would be good for the cylinder.

homemade · Nov 15, 2008

http://crswnew.cartech.com/wnew/techarticles/PCS00007.html

Try this

cheechako · Nov 16, 2008

59

Good luck with your project. It sounds interesting.

I collect wildcat cartridges. Tell me about you 30/44.

Ray

59flatbedford · Nov 16, 2008

well thanks a lot thats at least one ideal. however im not to crazy about using stainless steel i was hoping for some grade of normal steel but stianless might be the only option i guess. keep the ideals coming i need all the help i can get

johnoder · Nov 16, 2008

im not to crazy about using stainless steel

Hope you read the linked article sufficiently to grasp that it took the efforts of two large companies with long experience in such matters to come up with something adequate.

The article also touches on the machining details necessary.

John Oder

59flatbedford · Nov 16, 2008

yea it did sound like that would be about the only thing tough enough to do it so now the question would be where the heck could i find me a piece of the carpenter stainless?

homemade · Nov 16, 2008

You may want to order enough to do it twice. Saves a cutting and shipping charge. Just in case.

johnoder · Nov 17, 2008

find me a piece of the carpenter stainless?

Right here of course:

http://www.cartech.com/

bob308 · Nov 17, 2008

why not save time and money get a new model in .30 carbine and then rechamber it?

59flatbedford · Nov 17, 2008

well thanks guys so any pointer on how to auctually machine the part?

biometrics · Nov 18, 2008

I can't help much on setup for machining a revolver cylinder, because I am not experienced in that, and because we have no idea what your machine capabilities are or your skills.

... but if you have to ask how to make a cylinder, you better get some good practice stock to make a couple of prototypes that function mechanically before you start machining the expensive material that has been recommended.

My guess would be that the chambers would be best bored and reamed in a milling machine with the cylinder on a rotary indexing table. Measuring and machining operations for the various notches that are used to turn a lock the cylinder in use are beyond my skill set...

Good luck... I will be watching your progress to learn myself...

59flatbedford · Nov 18, 2008

well thanks i have a rough ideal how i could do this but i have never made a cylinder so figured i would ask and see if i could get any tips i might not have thought of. and i will make many practice pieces first probably out of plastic or alum or somethin like that that wont tear up tools if i make a miscalculation.

david n · Nov 19, 2008

I've made a few cylinders in my time, thousands actually. I make them out of 4140HT. It is actually a little overkill, but 4140 or 41L40will work. The HT is 27-32RC. You my think it is more difficult to machine, but I have found it machines a bit nicer and you can get a better surface finish. I have also used 416SS. It machines beautifully. But if you want to practice, get yourself some 12L14 or some 1144 and have at it. Turn the blanks, drill and chamber, make some fixtures with pins and use the chambers for reference for the the ratchet teeth and stop notches. I'm sure you can get your chamber reamers from Brownels. I have my reamers custom ground out of carbide and TiN coated for production. High speed reamers will treat you well if you only have a few cylinders to make.

There are a few cylinders in the center of this pic. The trick is getting the ratchet teeth in the correct positions and the of course the alignment of the stop not to the corresponding chamber.

gwilson · Nov 19, 2008

The best suggestion is to buy the .30 cal. cylinder and re -chamber it. You do not sound like you know what you are getting into. Getting the ratchet and stop notches right is not for beginners. You could blow up the gun if anything goes wrong.

SteveinAZ · May 12, 2009

David n...briging this one up from the past.... I have noticed revolver cylinders in a couple of threads you have posted on, and the chamber bores almost look burnished - great job. I see that you have listed 4140HT as your material of choice or customer choice, but I am impressed with what looks like a great finish on the chambers. Just courious, but are you using a floating reamer holder or just colleting and indicating your reamers? I also presume you are using a piloted reamer or a stepped reamer to size the end of the chamber at the same time??? Do you cut your ratchet teeth with a 45 degree chamfer mill or second op those...tons of work in a seemingly simple part!

Some of the other parts in the pic look familiar...looks like coil over shock ends, since your not near the desert, they must be for snowsleds?

Steve

david n · May 12, 2009

SteveinAZ said:
David n...briging this one up from the past.... I have noticed revolver cylinders in a couple of threads you have posted on, and the chamber bores almost look burnished - great job. I see that you have listed 4140HT as your material of choice or customer choice, but I am impressed with what looks like a great finish on the chambers. Just courious, but are you using a floating reamer holder or just colleting and indicating your reamers? I also presume you are using a piloted reamer or a stepped reamer to size the end of the chamber at the same time??? Do you cut your ratchet teeth with a 45 degree chamfer mill or second op those...tons of work in a seemingly simple part!

Some of the other parts in the pic look familiar...looks like coil over shock ends, since your not near the desert, they must be for snowsleds?

Steve

Steve,
The chamber reamers are custom ground to my specs at a local tool and cutter grinder. It took a bit of trial and error to get them to cut the way I wanted and to get them to last more than a half dozen cylinders. I can get about 80 to 100 cylinders from one reamer. I covet some of my processes and don't feel like broadcasting it worldwide.
Yep, those are shock rod ends. And you're right, there are no deserts here in MN. They get shipped to Cali.

Alpacca Fortyfive · Jul 17, 2009

I'm reading through some of the old threads again, and something just jumped off the page...

There are some suggestions in here for a few trial runs using cheaper steels.

Assuming that the trial run is successful, it's natural to hang onto the finished piece as a souvenir.

How about mounting it in epoxy or something of that sort, so if it ever goes walkabout (none of us will be here forever) no one with any sense will try firing it.

just a thought....

K

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