rifling machines?

Ciphery · Apr 8, 2015

I have been doing an exhausting and frusterating fruitless search. I'm looking for information and details on various rifling machines , in both their construction and opperation. Saddly however all my searches have turned up OLD threads with deleted pictures and deleted links to all the technical information I'm looking for.
Can some one help?
Have practical machenist members built one, or have detailed information on them?
I'm half way through a wheel-lock rifle build and would like to install a removeable rifled choke tube type muzzle adapter to transition from .50cal smooth bore rifle/shot gun to rifled barrel.
I know I'm new to the site but have built my own KMG 2"x72" grinder. Along with a complex indexing machine for endmill sharpening, as well as the complex lock mechanisim which utilizes a flashpan 'valving system" similar to a breme or corlis valve gear on a steam engine.....have built several of them too come to think of it. This project is not beyond my capacity either. I just need access to the neccessary information to educate myself on their construction
.
Please help

WILLEO6709 · Apr 8, 2015

what type of rifling machine? cut rifling, button rifling, or hammer forged rifling?

paracongo308 · Apr 8, 2015

Or EDM rifling.

GGaskill · Apr 8, 2015

While this thread is about making a rifling machine for 1" cannon bores, most of it is relevant to any caliber. The images are all missing at the moment but I have inquired of the original posters to get the images refreshed if they still have them.

Seacoast Artillery Rifling Machine Thread

FredC · Apr 8, 2015

Have you been following homebrew.357's thread. He described rifling in his lathe. About twenty years ago Home Shop Machinist ran a series on building and using a rifling machine. Maybe reprints are available?

Ciphery · Apr 8, 2015

Cut rifling.
Cnc,edm and the like are beyond my home shop capabilities, hammer forging is not at the top of my list though I do have a forge.......but no. And button rifling is too complicated to obtain the desired buttons AND machenery. A cut rifling machine seems the most versatile for future use as well as imediate needs

johnoder · Apr 8, 2015

Designed and built this in the seventies for a customer. Primarily muzzle loading barrels with slow twists. I suppose it is still being used somewhere

The thread turned out to be way too much trouble and isn't very helpful

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/gunsmithing/sine-bar-rifling-machine-126448/?highlight=Rifling

kootne · Apr 8, 2015

Guy Lautard put out video/booklet with a guy named Bill Webb about 20 years ago. He may still be alive and selling them. Google him, also, Cliff La Bounty has a book out. I have not read his but can say there is a lot of info in Lautard/Webb. If you are only doing one, I would read stuff with the idea of doing it in a lathe I already had rather than making a purpose built machine. But the cutter, reamer, drilling info is all good.

Ciphery · Apr 8, 2015

johnoder said:
Designed and built this in the seventies for a customer. Primarily muzzle loading barrels with slow twists. I suppose it is still being used somewhere

The thread turned out to be way too much trouble and isn't very helpful

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/gunsmithing/sine-bar-rifling-machine-126448/?highlight=Rifling

This was part of my frusterating search LoL

Ciphery · Apr 8, 2015

I suppose I should add that I have a few old rifles and revolvers I may wish to referbish in the future so a second, third, fourth build is not out of the possability.

I also have a sacraficial southbend 9" x 36" lathe that hs a badly worn bed that COULD be converted to a rifling machine.
I'm leaning towards a sine bar models of machines as the appear to offer the greatest versatility.
Anyone know how the cutter drops away from the groove being cut on the return stroke?

johnoder · Apr 8, 2015

Ciphery said:
Anyone know how the cutter drops away from the groove being cut on the return stroke?

Sure not on the one I built - would have required far more gizmo/rube goldberg than the customer was interested in paying for. The cutter and shim stack was REMOVED prior to any back stroke

Butch Lambert · Apr 8, 2015

Check back in a few years. I would like to see your progress.

paracongo308 · Apr 8, 2015

Ciphery said:
I suppose I should add that I have a few old rifles and revolvers I may wish to referbish in the future so a second, third, fourth build is not out of the possability.

I also have a sacraficial southbend 9" x 36" lathe that hs a badly worn bed that COULD be converted to a rifling machine.
I'm leaning towards a sine bar models of machines as the appear to offer the greatest versatility.
Anyone know how the cutter drops away from the groove being cut on the return stroke?

Probably cuts like a key seating machine where the cutter/drawbar is riding behind a tapered wedge that slightly goes forward on the reverse stroke so the cutter retracts.

Ciphery · Apr 8, 2015

Butch Lambert said:
Check back in a few years. I would like to see your progress.

LOL you're too funny. I fully intend to have this done in months NOT years.

Ciphery · Apr 8, 2015

paracongo308 said:
Probably cuts like a key seating machine where the cutter/drawbar is riding behind a tapered wedge that slightly goes forward on the reverse stroke so the cutter retracts.

Hmm. I'd like to see the details on that.....there must be a lip on the wedge so that it bottoms out for a consistant height gain every time.

What does the "bump sto" do on the Robbins & Lawrence sine bar rifling machine?

johnoder · Apr 8, 2015

Try putting all that in, say, .440 dia cutter body AND an even skinny-er pull rod that has to be stiff enough to rotate the cutter head smoothly, repeatably

paracongo308 said:
Probably cuts like a key seating machine where the cutter/drawbar is riding behind a tapered wedge that slightly goes forward on the reverse stroke so the cutter retracts.

Ciphery · Apr 8, 2015

johnoder said:
Try putting all that in, say, .440 dia cutter body AND an even skinny-er pull rod that has to be stiff enough to rotate the cutter head smoothly, repeatably

Exactly why I'm looking for info. The only thing I can figure might work as of yet is a flexable mount like on a shapper that allows deflection in one direction but not in the other. OR by rotating the barrel with the pinion on the sine bar and leaving the cutter in one plane allowing the wedge system to be built into the cutter mount

kootne · Apr 8, 2015

Very detailed information on rifling head and cutter design is in the Lautard/Webb video/booklet I referenced in a previous post. It appears to still be available.
rmv
Well, I cannot get the link to stick , google Guy Lautard

paracongo308 · Apr 8, 2015

Go to youtube and lookup Bartlein hand cut rifling, you will see exactly how the hook progresses .0001-.00015 each stroke.

ortho · Apr 8, 2015

Here's another source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piaZjbdu4Ok Hope this helps.
---Joe

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