kendog
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Location
- West Coast
Does anyone have a 25-21 Stevens finish reamer they would like to sell or rent?
4D and Elk Ridge no got.
Thanks.
4D and Elk Ridge no got.
Thanks.
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In Search of a Reamer 25-21 Stevens
- Thread starter kendog
- Start date
- Replies 19
- Views 4,789
GGaskill
Titanium
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2001
- Location
- Central AZ
4D and Elk Ridge no got.
Not surprised. Do you even have a chamber drawing?
Not surprised. Do you even have a chamber drawing?
kendog
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Location
- West Coast
No. Or should I say not yet. PTG shows the reamer on their website. I'm sure he has 10 or 20 in stock and ready to ship! 
This caliber was dead and stinkin' before SAAMI standardized anything, so no telling what I'll get but I'll give them a call and see what they got. I do have some new brass from Buffalo Arms. We'll see if it comes close to Kiffs drawing.
This caliber was dead and stinkin' before SAAMI standardized anything, so no telling what I'll get but I'll give them a call and see what they got. I do have some new brass from Buffalo Arms. We'll see if it comes close to Kiffs drawing.
GGaskill
Titanium
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2001
- Location
- Central AZ
kendog
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Location
- West Coast
Wiki is about the same as Cartridges of the World, except it describes it as a bottleneck round, which it aint.
kendog
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Location
- West Coast
That is a definite possibility. Never done one like that before. Would you cut that long taper off the compound? Seems like it would be tough to get a good finish that way. I dont have a taper attachment.
wesg
Titanium
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2004
Have you tried the ASSRA forum?
kendog
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Location
- West Coast
Registering as we speak. Forgot all about them. The memory is the second thing that goes... Can't remember the first!
Would you cut this chamber off the compound with a boring bar? It tapers approx .020" over 2".
GGaskill
Titanium
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2001
- Location
- Central AZ
Wiki is about the same as Cartridges of the World, except it describes it as a bottleneck round, which it ain't.
"It was Stevens' second straight-cased cartridge (after the .25-25)..."
and
"It was also found the usual 20 or 21 gr (1.30 or 1.36 g) black powder charge of the shorter, bottlenecked .25-21..."
Above from wiki. Some confusion here. Maybe I will edit the wiki.
"It was Stevens' second straight-cased cartridge (after the .25-25)..."
and
"It was also found the usual 20 or 21 gr (1.30 or 1.36 g) black powder charge of the shorter, bottlenecked .25-21..."
Above from wiki. Some confusion here. Maybe I will edit the wiki.
A taper attachment would be my first choice. I would experiment with the compound and a test piece and get everything as near perfect as possible. Then leave some stock on the real one in case the compound is not rigid enough and you can polish it out if necessary. Cut the neck area without the compound. All the compound should have to do is the taper and bottle neck which it does have, although very small. There is a radius at the junction of the taper and neck which should be ground on the boring bar. It appears that this baby will be tough to get brass for so you should neck size only and so it will not matter it your chamber is perfect to any other spec.
wesg
Titanium
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2004
Me personally? No. Too small and deep, and I'd be worried about getting a decent finish as you are. The neck would normally have a 45 at the end of it. Gonna put that on the bar, or cut it with the compound too? Don't think I'd try it on the bar. It's gonna be more than .010 per side and I'd be worried the rifling will make the chatter worse. Now you're at 2 setups.
I 'believe' this is a straight taper case with a cylindrical neck area. If so, at such a shallow body taper I don't think I'd worry about radiusing the junction. Not sure what TD is suggesting. Must be refering to a radius in the body to shoulder junction of a bottle neck. Trying to put this on a boring bar would make it a large concave form cutter and be sure to chatter horribly. Probably just break the bar off at that L/D ratio.
There's also the issue of the throat. That could be done with a throater, if you have one in .25 cal. But depending on who this is for and what he wants to do with it they can get mighty picky about the spec's for cast bullets, breech seating, etc.
Don't have any drawings handy. Maybe see what I can find when I get home. Some of these old cartridges have what we consider normal throats. Some are long straight tapers with no freebore. Some just a 45 off the end of the chamber.
I've made some case forming dies by taper boring the body with the compound, and then going back in to do the shoulder. A bit fussy to get things matched up in there. PPC/BR size dies. Wouldn't want to try it in a barrel. Especially that deep.
The "bottleneck" is so small and so close to the case mouth that it looks almost like a crimp. The Bullet is held by a very short case neck.
When you start shelling out 5 bucks for 1 case I'm sure you will get over any desire for full length sizing.
When you start shelling out 5 bucks for 1 case I'm sure you will get over any desire for full length sizing.
wesg
Titanium
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2004
Are you sure it's not a crimp? I've seen some old straight wall shells that look like that.
You wouldn't happen to have a rifle you could chamber cast, would you?
You wouldn't happen to have a rifle you could chamber cast, would you?
Researching this unusual cartridge reveals many sources calling it a straight case which it obviously is not if it tapers from .298-.300 to .257 or so. There many who claim that the "bottleneck" sources are confusing it with the .25-20 single shot which has very obvious bottleneck and I suspect that is the case. There do not seem to be any published specifications as the cartridge was obsolete and out of production before the SAAMI began to adopt standards. I would suggest find an original and securing a chamber cast. If the case is merely tapered from head to mouth then it is even simpler. In any case the rarity and exorbitant price of brass ($4.60 ea) which many claim is of very poor quality means that once it is fired and fire formed to that chamber then the less working the better and it won't really matter if your chamber is identical to the other 3 or so in existence.
paracongo308
Banned
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2014
- Location
- Green Lane, Pa.
The "bottleneck" is so small and so close to the case mouth that it looks almost like a crimp. The Bullet is held by a very short case neck.
When you start shelling out 5 bucks for 1 case I'm sure you will get over any desire for full length sizing.
That case looks like a fired and neck sized only, I have a new Rem UMC 25-21 loaded round and there is no slight bottleneck. It measures out a .284 over the bullet and at the rear next to the rim it measures .301
wesg
Titanium
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2004
I should not have used the term 'straight wall'. Straight taper would be more accurate.
I initially thought perhaps you had this confused with the 25-20 SS, of which I have one, but the picture you posted made it clear you had not. I also have found no drawings in the little bit I've searched. The only thing I've found so far is a picture of the Stevens cartridges in one of Grant's books. All but the 25-20 SS look to be straight tapers. The 25-21 and 25-25 have a cannelure behind the bullet, the 25-25 having a heavy crimp at the mouth. No way of knowing if these are factory rds or not.
I agree, chamber casting, preferably several rifles, seems the only reasonable way to determine what these should look like. Unless there are original drawings floating around somewhere.
BTW, if anybody wants to build one of these, I have a complete Tip-up action I got from Gary Quinlan years ago. I believe it was originally a .38 rimfire. Was going to make a .22 barrel for it, but wound up with a friend's rifle that I was wanting to 'copy'. Also picked up a nice #7. Both need the barrels relined.
Ungainly looking things, that turn out to feel so right when you shoulder them.
paracongo308
Banned
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2014
- Location
- Green Lane, Pa.
This might help clear up some of the guessing. There are NO bottle necks on this cartridge.
shutinlead
Aluminum
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2008
- Location
- Wyoming
As stated... I picked up a Marlin Ballard that is chambered in this caliber, was told it was a 25-20, not so, after making a cast of the chamber, it matches Donnelly's description exactly. I'm too cheap to pay $5-6 per case so I wrote a quick program and cut a few straight cases, ground a chucking reamer to the right taper and made a couple of sizing dies to give me the right body taper on the case. I had a few issues in the resizing process, if I made the head too large, even the size Donnelly states, the case crushed by the time the taper came out. I ended up staying about .001 undersize on the head area, sizing it in stages, three to be exact, and annealing after the second go. One more thing I experimented with was sizing lube, Hornady "One Shot" didn't work here, RCBS & Lyman on the pad, worked a little better, but Corbin's swaging lube worked very well.
I haven't checked the twist rate on this barrel yet but it's on the "to do" list.
It's been a few months since my research so I don't recall the powder charge, I'm using an Ideal mold modified for a gas check, straight linotype alloy, weighs in just under 100 grains and small pistol primers. I do recall the groups, sub moa at a 100 yds. - when I do my part...
And no, just because it's a vintage Ballard, I didn't shoot this very well with a tang and globe sight, in frustration I mounted a 16x J.W. Fecker scope for load testing.
