Truing a Remington Action

fergi · Feb 12, 2009

I’m new to lathe work and am trying to gather the tools necessary to “TRUE” a Remington 700 action. For those who don’t know, this would involve correcting an internal 1.0625 X 16 thread with a special jig that holds the action so that it turns around the bolt raceway. The thread cutting tool will have to reach inside the action to a depth of approximately 1 inch. I don’t mind spending the extra money for a tool that makes the job easier or does a better job. What would be the best tool for cutting an inside thread of this size?

kevinbritvec · Feb 12, 2009

Go to Gre-Tan Rifles web site, they have a lot of tooling and videos related to M700 blueprinting.

bandhmo · Feb 12, 2009

Since you are new to the lathe I would suggest making your own fixtures as you will need the practice. There is also much more to truing an action then just recutting the treads. I would recommended some reading, The Complete Illustrated Guide to Precision Rifle Barrel Fitting, by John Hinnant; is a good book. It goes into how to make all the fixtures you will need.

deltaenterprizes · Feb 12, 2009

Try Dave Manson's web site.

Butch Lambert · Feb 13, 2009

I prefer the Gre Tan tools. You need a true machined surface to start. The Gre Tan tools ream the raceway and as the reamer pushes out the bushing you have a rod sticking out to indicate the raceways to the axis of your lathe spindle. He has a fixture to hold your receiver that allows you to use 2 indicators to indicate and adjust the raceways to run coaxial to the lathe spindle. Single point your threads to straighten them, face your shoulder and face your lugs, all in one setting.
With todays prices on custom receivers, it doesn't make sense to blueprint a receiver and do the other work necessary to make it comparable to a custom.
Butch

fergi · Feb 13, 2009

Thanks Butch,
The special “jig” or fixture that I refered to is from Gre-Tan rifles. I also have his DVD’s on the subject. What he doesn’t say in his DVD is what kind of tool he used to get inside the action to “chase the threads”. It looks like a boring bar but it has a tip, 90 degrees to the bar axis. I don’t have anything against making my own fixtures as long as they are up to the task. Some of the special rods he uses are precision ground and I don’t have that capability. I agree with you on the price of the custom receivers, but I already have a couple of rifles with Remington actions and would like to use them. I have bought my last Remington "off the shelf".

Butch Lambert · Feb 13, 2009

The only way to straighten the threads is to single point them. If you use a tap, it will just follow the old threads. Mike Bryant told me he has seen them out of axis by .030" in a Remington.
Butch

Ben Hooper · Feb 13, 2009

fergi said:
Thanks Butch,
The special “jig” or fixture that I refered to is from Gre-Tan rifles. I also have his DVD’s on the subject. What he doesn’t say in his DVD is what kind of tool he used to get inside the action to “chase the threads”. It looks like a boring bar but it has a tip, 90 degrees to the bar axis. I don’t have anything against making my own fixtures as long as they are up to the task. Some of the special rods he uses are precision ground and I don’t have that capability. I agree with you on the price of the custom receivers, but I already have a couple of rifles with Remington actions and would like to use them. I have bought my last Remington "off the shelf".

Chasing internal threads with a single point tool is not a simple task, and certainly not for the beginner machinist... The chance of you screwing up the threads is quite high. The benefit of truing the threads is quite low.

Build a mandrel and face the reciever lightly with a sharp tool. Put a really good barrel and trigger in it, and shoot it.

If the reciever is out more that your mandrel clearance, it will not go on the mandrel. So build your mandrel with the tolerances you desire, after measuring your receiver.

Ben

garyphansen · Feb 13, 2009

I agree with Ben! If you are "Truing" up the receiver just to have something to do or if you are into bench rest 1000 yard shooting then go for it. If you are working on a hunting rifle, well then in my humble opinion you are wasting your time. If a factory rifle shoots to 2 MOA or better it is doubtful you will see a great improvement. Gary P. Hansen

fergi · Feb 14, 2009

Thanks for all the comments,
I'm just trying to learn machining in general. I bought a 1946 South Bend Heavy 10 last summer and have been practicing when I can. I've been turning barrel tenons and am happy with my progress on that. I was going to practice on internally threaded pipe until I felt like I was ready to actually true an action.
Most of my rifles are bench rest type guns and I guess I'm getting tired of paying big money for something I think I can eventually learn to do myself. I appreciate everyone’s input but would still like to know what would be the best tool for cutting female threads.
Thanks again,
John

tdmidget · Feb 14, 2009

Of course if you "true" this thread it won't be 1.0625 anymore. Then you may need to rebarrel with a bastard oversize thread.

Ben Hooper · Feb 14, 2009

fergi said:
Thanks for all the comments,
I'm just trying to learn machining in general. I bought a 1946 South Bend Heavy 10 last summer and have been practicing when I can. I've been turning barrel tenons and am happy with my progress on that. I was going to practice on internally threaded pipe until I felt like I was ready to actually true an action.
Most of my rifles are bench rest type guns and I guess I'm getting tired of paying big money for something I think I can eventually learn to do myself. I appreciate everyone’s input but would still like to know what would be the best tool for cutting female threads.
Thanks again,
John

A boring bar with a 60degree threading ...either hand ground or insert tip on it, or grind one from a tool steel bit from scratch. That's the easy part. Timing up the threads accurately in a blind hole is what is difficult..knowing where to stop the cut, keeping the tool from moving/breaking is the hard part.

Let us know how you make out

Ben

precision tools · Feb 14, 2009

"The Gunsmith Machinist" by Steve Acker is available from Village Press and, I believe, Brownell's as well as other sources. It is a collection of Steve's articles in Machinists Workshop and Home Shop Machinist magazines. It includes his series on building a target rifle which details accurizing and blueprinting a Remington 700 action. It is a complete build including barreling, chambering and stock work as well.

It is written in plain language with plenty of photos. Steve does use a lot of Manson fixturing, but most of it is simple enough to make in the shop.

I do not have the book, but recall the article on cleaning up the threads on the receiver. You do end up with a larger thread and have to thread the barrel to compensate fot that.

300sniper · Feb 14, 2009

bandhmo said:
Since you are new to the lathe I would suggest making your own fixtures as you will need the practice. There is also much more to truing an action then just recutting the treads. I would recommended some reading, The Complete Illustrated Guide to Precision Rifle Barrel Fitting, by John Hinnant; is a good book. It goes into how to make all the fixtures you will need.

the book you mentioned has great step by step directions for single point chasing the threads. i highly recommend it just for that. i went a different route for truing the receiver and barrel work than shown in the book.

as far as truing the action, i mad a jig similar to the gtr, with four adjustment bolts up front and four at the rear. i used a length of .5" drill rod as the mandrel. i turned brass bushings with an od to exactly fit the bolt raceway front and rear. the id fit the drill rod. i dialed it in with two .0001" indicators until there was less than .0002 runout. at that point i removed the drill rod. i faced the front of the receiver and the internal lugs. i then single point chased the threads and called the action trued.

fergi · Feb 14, 2009

Thanks again everyone. I realize that this is not an easy task even for an experienced machinist and I'm just a beginner. I'm enjoying the lathe work so far and have learned a lot already from you experienced machinist. This forum is great. I’ll keep you posted as to my progress.

Fitch Williams · Feb 15, 2009

Good sources already mentioned. In addition, I'd suggest Richard Franklin's video "Metalworking for a Rifle Smith". It's not expensive and he goes thorugh every thing you can do to true up a Remington 700 action. That combined with Hinnant's book and what you already have should get you on your way.

Make your own tooling. It is great practice.

I made these based on input from the above mentioned sources:

Fitch

fergi · Feb 16, 2009

Nice looking parts! Where do you get the raw material for your projects?

John

Fitch Williams · Feb 16, 2009

fergi said:
Nice looking parts! Where do you get the raw material for your projects?

John

Thanks.

It's mystery metal off a drop rack at the metal supply store on Desoto Street in the San Fernando Valley, CA, that I used to drive by on my way home from work. I would stop there now and then to see what was on the drop rack that I could get for what ever money happened to be in my wallet, take it home and place it in the metal archive. (I brought a ton or more of metal with me when I moved from CA to PA.) All I know for sure about the metal is that it is steel. They were rusty rod ends when I started.

What you see in the picture is as machined.

The shorter one seemed to machine quite nicely. Cleaned right up. got me sort of spoiled.

The metal in the long one machined like pink pearl eraser. The first pass looked like it was done by a beaver with dull teeth - it was obviously sticking to the insert like melted gummy bear. I used a fresh insert, cranked up the speed to just short of making blue razor wire swarf, pushed the feed, and took a "cut" to get it to clean up. Got a lot of tan razor wire sort of swarf off it but it turned out OK.

It's a bit like a horse race - you run what you brung.

Fitch

slugger · Feb 16, 2009

I think truing a 700 action is a waste of time if you trying to make money or building custom guns. I have a 700 that wasn't quite shooting like I wanted. I sent it to Greg Tannel to blue print and put a nice barrel on it. It shoots about 1/8" better now that it did before. I spent about $700- what a waste!

If I want something that REALLY shoots now, I go with a custom action. If all you have is time- go for it, but I don't think the returns are much. A friend of mine, who is a full-time gunwriter and part time gunsmith, says that when people want him to send them an action so they can put a free barrel on it for a little publicity, he instructs them NOT to true the action. Once trued, you can no longer swap factory barrels in and out if you have a inclination to do such a thing!

The only reason I can see for truing a 700 is to shoot in a factory rifle class with an illegally modified rifle that nobody can tell has been tampered with. Kinda like NASCAR, where everyone cheats and getting caught is just a minor set back.

Ben Hooper · Feb 17, 2009

I've been asking people for years to explain to me, from an engineering standpoint, how action truing makes a rifle more accurate.

So, far no one has convinced me, nor has my own testing shown any difference in accuracy. I've painstakingly built all the jigs, and tried it all....and accomplished nothing!

Truing a Remington Action

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