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  1. #1
    gunsmither is offline Aluminum
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    Default Type of Locktite for barrel liner?

    Can anyone recommend a Locktite product number for a .22 barrel liner, based upon actual experience using it? I have used Acraglas in the past, but I'd like to try Locktite. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks! Joe

  2. #2
    SmithSolar Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunsmither View Post
    Can anyone recommend a Locktite product number for a .22 barrel liner, based upon actual experience using it? I have used Acraglas in the past, but I'd like to try Locktite. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks! Joe
    Try Loctite web site
    It has a good list of the loctite Henkel - Welcome to LoctiteŽ
    Also try McMaster-Carr
    The best way to put the liner is the shink fit
    Next best way is to solder
    Loctite is at the bottom of the list

    Dave

  3. #3
    JimmyD is offline Aluminum
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    Default

    I'm going to pay attention here , as I have a rifle to reline also [.22] I was going to go with the acraglass but if there is a better method ? If they are soldered is it just the ends or do you try to solder the full length ? Shrink fit , how much interference ? Whats the best accepted method ? Jim

  4. #4
    jockofthelowveld is offline Hot Rolled
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmithSolar View Post
    The best way to put the liner is the shink fit
    Next best way is to solder
    Loctite is at the bottom of the list

    Dave
    Shrink fit is NOT the best way to install a thin diameter liner. It can make the bore tight and will effect accuracy. How may have you installed by shrink fit and what was the accuracy results?

    Good quality epoxy works quite well. Epoxy has been used for 40 years by such firms as Remington and Simmons to secure shotgun ventilated ribs. Simmons.

    Teague of England uses epoxy to secure the shotgun liners they install full length in older double barrel shotguns--works very well.

    Some shotgun manufactures are now using black colored epoxy to secure double barrel shotgun upper and lower ribs--although I had rather have them low temperature brazed as the quality Spanish firms such as Arietta do.

    I would venture to guess that high strength Locktite will work.

  5. #5
    RWO
    RWO is offline Cast Iron
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    Loctite 609 works perfectly. I have used it for several reline jobs and Loctite tech people recommend it. Truth is there is so much area to bond that any kind of anaerobic thread locker will work. 609 has a low viscosity which insures that the space is filled end to end.
    I use an 8 mm liner drill and push the liner in with the barrel in a vertical position, keeping the liner OD wet with 609 as it enters the barrel. The clearance is minimal and I have seen the the joint at the muzzle disappear when the crown is recut.

    RWO

  6. #6
    BobB is offline Cast Iron
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    Default

    Loctite works good.
    If you do it right, you could'nt blow that liner out of there with dynamite.

  7. #7
    SmithSolar Guest

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    Shrink fit is the most hardest to right of all
    Next best is silver-solder in barrel
    The fastest and cheapest in epoxy/loctite

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by jockofthelowveld View Post
    Shrink fit is NOT the best way to install a thin diameter liner. It can make the bore tight and will effect accuracy. How may have you installed by shrink fit and what was the accuracy results?

    Good quality epoxy works quite well. Epoxy has been used for 40 years by such firms as Remington and Simmons to secure shotgun ventilated ribs. Simmons.

    Teague of England uses epoxy to secure the shotgun liners they install full length in older double barrel shotguns--works very well.

    Some shotgun manufactures are now using black colored epoxy to secure double barrel shotgun upper and lower ribs--although I had rather have them low temperature brazed as the quality Spanish firms such as Arietta do.

    I would venture to guess that high strength Locktite will work.

  8. #8
    jockofthelowveld is offline Hot Rolled
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmithSolar View Post
    Shrink fit is the "most hardest to right of all"
    Next best is silver-solder in barrel
    The fastest and cheapest in epoxy/loctite

    Dave
    OK, so it is the "most hardest to right of all" whatever that means-- so tell me exactly how you have actually accomplished a shrink fit of a 8mm liner (or similar size) in a .22 cal rim fire rifle. Are you speaking theory or actual practice as I would like to know as I don't how you can get the bore for the 8mm insert within the same diameter +/- .001" for the full length of the barrel, without using the same type equipment that rifle barrel manufactures use to bore a barrel blank. Not to mention how you heat the barrel and hold the temperature while you somehow force a very long chilled tube down the heated barrel (for maybe 22 inches) without the tube seizing after about 4 inches of travel.

    I have been repairing and restoring rifles and shotguns for 40 years and even though I don't believe the shrink fit you mention is possible in a gunsmiths shop, I am always open to learn new methods.


    Best Regards;
    Jock

  9. #9
    SmithSolar Guest

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    I like the epoxy way its fast, not hard to do and cheep

    The shink fit is for some how has a lot of cash
    Steps
    1. drill and ream this take a ruffing remer and a finishing ream and hold the bore to 0.0001"
    2. measure the bore this has to be done with in +- 0.00005"
    3. send liner to a machine shop the has a centerless grinder and have ground over size by 0.0002 to 0.0003"
    4. check the hardest of barrel to see it heat treated
    5. heat barred up to 500 deg
    6. put the kine into liquid nitrogen for a few min
    7. take hot barrel and slide the liner into barrel

    This is the best but for most firearms you can buy new one for the cost of shink fit

    I like the epoxy way its fast, not hard to do and cheep hard to make a mistake. With shink fit one tiny mistake and you are buy a new liner

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by jockofthelowveld View Post
    OK, so it is the "most hardest to right of all" whatever that means-- so tell me exactly how you have actually accomplished a shrink fit of a 8mm liner (or similar size) in a .22 cal rim fire rifle. Are you speaking theory or actual practice as I would like to know as I don't how you can get the bore for the 8mm insert within the same diameter +/- .001" for the full length of the barrel, without using the same type equipment that rifle barrel manufactures use to bore a barrel blank. Not to mention how you heat the barrel and hold the temperature while you somehow force a very long chilled tube down the heated barrel (for maybe 22 inches) without the tube seizing after about 4 inches of travel.

    I have been repairing and restoring rifles and shotguns for 40 years and even though I don't believe the shrink fit you mention is possible in a gunsmiths shop, I am always open to learn new methods.


    Best Regards;
    Jock

  10. #10
    jockofthelowveld is offline Hot Rolled
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    Good explanation.

    Now for the other part of my question. Who do you know who has actually ever done this?

    Best Regards;
    Jock

  11. #11
    jabezkin is offline Stainless
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    I have to ask: How will the centerless grinder hold center?

  12. #12
    SmithSolar Guest

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    It is machine tool call a centerless grinder
    It grinds with out centers

    Dave

  13. #13
    jabezkin is offline Stainless
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmithSolar View Post
    It is machine tool call a centerless grinder
    It grinds with out centers

    Dave
    I know that. How will the bore be kept in the center?

  14. #14
    SmithSolar Guest

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    As true as the part you start with.

    Dave
    Last edited by SmithSolar; 07-19-2010 at 02:11 PM.

  15. #15
    jockofthelowveld is offline Hot Rolled
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    Default Shrink fit theory

    Dave;

    As I stated above your theory explanation of how shrink fit is accomplished was expressed well.

    But are you ignoring my question of the practical application of theory--"who do you know (YOU or OTHERS) that have ever shrink fitted a liner in a rifle barrel"?

    Regards;
    JocK

  16. #16
    jabezkin is offline Stainless
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmithSolar View Post
    As trun as the part you start with.

    Dave
    If all your liners come in that good, wonderful.

    "In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they aren't."-Yogi Berra

    Watervliet is the place to do that...............With 16 in guns.

  17. #17
    SmithSolar Guest

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    I never want to use shink fit
    I like epoxy its faster
    Yes I have done shink ftting for over 30 years just not as a gunsmith
    I have a few books that mention using shink fit for sharp shooters
    Shink fit is not fun to do

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by jabezkin View Post
    If all your liners come in that good, wonderful.

    "In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they aren't."-Yogi Berra

    Watervliet is the place to do that...............With 16 in guns.

  18. #18
    jockofthelowveld is offline Hot Rolled
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmithSolar View Post
    I never want to use shink fit
    I like epoxy its faster
    Yes I have done shink ftting for over 30 years just not as a gunsmith
    I have a few books that mention using shink fit for sharp shooters
    Shink fit is not fun to do

    Dave
    Dave;

    Pray tell then my dear fellow why did you write this:

    "The best way to put the liner is the shink fit
    Next best way is to solder
    Loctite is at the bottom of the list"

    Case closed. There is no evidence to support that your recommendation that shrink fit for .22 cal liners is the Best way for installation.

  19. #19
    SmithSolar Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by jockofthelowveld View Post
    Dave;

    Pray tell then my dear fellow why did you write this:

    "The best way to put the liner is the shink fit
    Next best way is to solder
    Loctite is at the bottom of the list"

    Case closed. There is no evidence to support that your recommendation that shrink fit for .22 cal liners is the Best way for installation.
    After over 30 years of shink fitting almost any thing and for the jobs that had to also after reading about it gun books I had to agree with the writer it is the best
    I my self will not do it on a gun as I knwo it is hard to right

    Dave

  20. #20
    James Keefer's Avatar
    James Keefer is offline Plastic
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gunsmither View Post
    Can anyone recommend a Locktite product number for a .22 barrel liner, based upon actual experience using it? I have used Acraglas in the past, but I'd like to try Locktite. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks! Joe
    Hello Joe;
    Saw your question and decided to respond....It's a subject of great interest to me... I specialize in precision .22 target pistols. I prepare my liner first.. between centers to approx. .325 O.D. I strive for zero run out and taper. It's difficult to get that with a tool bit, but I can get very close...I then use a tool post grinder to get it perfect...When perfect, the diameter is what it is, and it is much easier then, to drill and reamer the barrel to to the clearance I need to match that liner.. I use 680 or 620 loctite.. Either one works very well. The 620 will withstand over 300 degrees, so bluing will not effect it. I talked with the Loctite engineers, and even though 680 is rated slightly lower at 290 degrees, they felt bluing temps would not harm it. I have blued numerous barrels with 680 secured liners with no ill results. As far as shrink fitting being the best, with out being disrepectful to the poster, that would be impossible. The stresses imparted to the liner would be very detrimental to accuracy. The Loctite method is completely stress free, and properly lined barrels out perfom orginals by a large margin..
    Good luck, and hope this assists you..

    Jerry

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