1991 Haas Vf-1 Tool changer slip clutch umbrella type

eksinger · Jan 15, 2014

Does anyone know what the proceedure for adjusting the slip clutch on the umbrella style tool changer.
The tool changer comes in and out normally.. sometimes is does it very slowly like it doesn't have enought gumpf to complete the stroke.
sometimes it starts slow then jerks a bit, then normal again.
I've had it alarm out a couple of times already.. the way it acts it seems to be the slipclutch that needs to be tightened/adjusted.

I've taken the cover off, advanced the tool changer so that i can get access to the setscrew. it's tight. I can see a spanner nut behind the swing arm.
is this what i have to tighten?

any help would be appreciated. Thanx.

sagespecialized · Jan 15, 2014

so is it the in and out motor, which is located on the BACKSIDE of the casting, or the motor behind the sheetmetal cover right over the TOP of the carousel?

I don't know of a slip clutch in the mix???? the rear motor drives the in and out while the other handles the turret rotation. Both of these are direct drive meaning no clutch. The in and out motor has a shaft that is off center and attached to a cam of sorts, rotation drives the carousel into tool change position, then another rotation and the carousel goes home.

The motor on top of the carousel (behind the sheetmetal) works the tool rotation depending on the tool being called.

I would pull the brushes and clean out the carbon to rule out a short in the motor. Shorts cause jerkyness and nonrepeatable issues. Don't be afraid to trace and check out the wiring, it's under the cover there next to the motor on your left.

My next item would be to pull it apart and check out the bearings and make sure they aren't all mangled. Sometimes the seals rot and allow chips and smagma to get in there and do there dirty work.

One of my girls has her shirt off right now so i can get you any pics you need to understand wtf i'm talking about...lol!

Check out the roller wheels and rails as well, make sure there moving smooth and there isn't any crap hanging them up.

The spanner nut is what is holding the bearings in place. You can pull it apart to check the bearings if you have to go there.

haastec · Jan 16, 2014

sagespecialized said:
so is it the in and out motor, which is located on the BACKSIDE of the casting, or the motor behind the sheetmetal cover right over the TOP of the carousel?

I don't know of a slip clutch in the mix???? the rear motor drives the in and out while the other handles the turret rotation. Both of these are direct drive meaning no clutch. The in and out motor has a shaft that is off center and attached to a cam of sorts, rotation drives the carousel into tool change position, then another rotation and the carousel goes home.

The motor on top of the carousel (behind the sheetmetal) works the tool rotation depending on the tool being called.

I would pull the brushes and clean out the carbon to rule out a short in the motor. Shorts cause jerkyness and nonrepeatable issues. Don't be afraid to trace and check out the wiring, it's under the cover there next to the motor on your left.

My next item would be to pull it apart and check out the bearings and make sure they aren't all mangled. Sometimes the seals rot and allow chips and smagma to get in there and do there dirty work.

One of my girls has her shirt off right now so i can get you any pics you need to understand wtf i'm talking about...lol!

Check out the roller wheels and rails as well, make sure there moving smooth and there isn't any crap hanging them up.

The spanner nut is what is holding the bearings in place. You can pull it apart to check the bearings if you have to go there.

The motor behind the carousel is for in/out.

On the umbrella style tool changers there is indeed a slip clutch in the mix. The motor output shaft goes directyly into the slip clutch and the slip clutch and arm assy is what moves the tool changer in/out as it rotates back and forth.

eksinger said:
Does anyone know what the proceedure for adjusting the slip clutch on the umbrella style tool changer.
The tool changer comes in and out normally.. sometimes is does it very slowly like it doesn't have enought gumpf to complete the stroke.
sometimes it starts slow then jerks a bit, then normal again.
I've had it alarm out a couple of times already.. the way it acts it seems to be the slipclutch that needs to be tightened/adjusted.

I've taken the cover off, advanced the tool changer so that i can get access to the setscrew. it's tight. I can see a spanner nut behind the swing arm.
is this what i have to tighten?

any help would be appreciated. Thanx.

I would check the motor and brushes first as was mentioned by sagespecialized. The slip clutch can fail, but it is not that common of an issue. What you have described sounds more like a motor issue.

Good luck!

machineit2 · Jan 16, 2014

haastec said:
The motor behind the carousel is for in/out.

On the umbrella style tool changers there is indeed a slip clutch in the mix. The motor output shaft goes directyly into the slip clutch and the slip clutch and arm assy is what moves the tool changer in/out as it rotates back and forth.

I would check the motor and brushes first as was mentioned by sagespecialized. The slip clutch can fail, but it is not that common of an issue. What you have described sounds more like a motor issue.

Good luck!

+1

Clean, check, replace the brushes in the motor, that will be the culprit.

Mike

BGL · Jan 16, 2014

You should be able to move the shuttle in/out with an adjustable wrench on the motor end of the arm. Once its slightly past horizontal it should push into position with your hand pressure to almost full position.

sagespecialized · Jan 16, 2014

haastec said:
The motor behind the carousel is for in/out.

On the umbrella style tool changers there is indeed a slip clutch in the mix. The motor output shaft goes directyly into the slip clutch and the slip clutch and arm assy is what moves the tool changer in/out as it rotates back and forth.

Yes Sir I stand corrected, Thanks haastec. I went and had a relook at the assy and the spanner nut is the tightening mechanism.

eksinger · Jan 16, 2014

I pulled the caps off and took out the brushes. they didn't look bad at all, there is plenty of brush left, i'd say 3/4 to a half. I blew out the carbon and to make sure the brushes aren't sticking. then filed off the sharp edges on the brushes and re installed. still acts the same.

sagespecialized · Jan 16, 2014

check the wiring for a short or break, make sure you chase it back to the board.

Did you BLOW out the carbon or Suck it out with a vacuum? I was told never to blow as the carbon just runs deeper into the windings and causes issues, but i'm not an electrical guru.

machineit2 · Jan 16, 2014

eksinger said:
I pulled the caps off and took out the brushes. they didn't look bad at all, there is plenty of brush left, i'd say 3/4 to a half. I blew out the carbon and to make sure the brushes aren't sticking. then filed off the sharp edges on the brushes and re installed. still acts the same.

On mine I had to disassemble the motor and clean everything and and the commutator. Then it worked great. Make sure you clean the brush contacts to the motor housing area too. As mentioned, check the connectors at least too.

Mike

BGL · Jan 17, 2014

eksinger said:
Does anyone know what the proceedure for adjusting the slip clutch on the umbrella style tool changer.
The tool changer comes in and out normally.. sometimes is does it very slowly like it doesn't have enought gumpf to complete the stroke.
sometimes it starts slow then jerks a bit, then normal again.
I've had it alarm out a couple of times already.. the way it acts it seems to be the slipclutch that needs to be tightened/adjusted.

I've taken the cover off, advanced the tool changer so that i can get access to the setscrew. it's tight. I can see a spanner nut behind the swing arm.
is this what i have to tighten?

any help would be appreciated. Thanx.

From this description your assuming the clutch is slipping. Have you actually observed that?

If it is slipping then rather than adjust it make sure that the shuttle is not binding for some other reason. That's the function of the clutch to prevent damage to the gearbox / shuttle.

You can with a bit of dexterity and determination - remove the arm with the rest intact.

Make sure the shuttle moves smoothly and easily back and forth with no rocking or twisting.
Check the guide rail and bearings they should be snug to the guide but roll smoothly.

Hope that helps.

jrmach · Jan 29, 2014

To the OP,,did you fix it ? I am having same problems with a 98; VF-2

eksinger · Feb 17, 2015

jrmach said:
To the OP,,did you fix it ? I am having same problems with a 98; VF-2

JRMach, sorry.. I didn't see your reply..
It's been a year since I was having tool change issue. been too busy to do anything about the tool changer.. it's still working but still having shuttle in and out problems. The problem now becoming more consistent. the shuttle runs in and out just fine, then all of a sudden it just creeps in. other times it doesn't have enough umph to finish the stroke to complete the tool change.
So I made time to dig into it the other day. the clutch is definitely slipping. I ordered a spanner wrench that fit's the locking ring to the clutch. and tightened it up a bit. now it seems to run more solid, "But" it still moves in and out very slowly, some times it lurches like there is something in the way. I've cleaned the knife rails many times to no avail. now I'm suspecting either the motor/brushes, or the bearing bolts that ride on the knife rail.

JRMach, did you get your tool changer issues resolved?

machineit2 · Feb 17, 2015

That sounds like bad connections of the brushes to the armature in the shuttle motor. Dissemble---clean--and reassemble. Replace the brushes if necessary.

Mike

eksinger · Feb 18, 2015

I believe your spot on Mike. I took time this morning and disassembled the back of the shuttle motor, cleaned the brushes. Then ran some 320 over the commutator.
Spinning the armature, I could see the shuttle moving in and out with no felt resistance.
After reassembling the brushes, motor cap and brush springs, the shuttle moves in and out with athority now. With a few hiccups now and then. But overall, much better. Think either the brushes are getting too short or the contact springs are too weak or at their uncompressed limit. We'll start by ordering new brushes
now if I can remember where I wrote down that website that sells brushes.

haastec · Feb 18, 2015

machineit2 said:
That sounds like bad connections of the brushes to the armature in the shuttle motor. Dissemble---clean--and reassemble. Replace the brushes if necessary.

Mike

Sounds familiar!

eksinger · Feb 18, 2015

Yes haastec, you and a couple of others did mentioned that a year ago.. my patients and procrastination all rolled into one let it go this far.
At the time it was still somewhat working and needed to get jobs out the door.
also was unsure just how to tackle the problem, I could only get enough dexterity to pull out one of the brushes to clean it up at the time, not realizing the I could just remove the entire back cap of the motor to gain access to both brushes. So it was easier to just trudge through it..

Fast forward to now, I had had enough, and started digging into it. after pulling the back of the motor cap off and cleaning out the brushes, then reinstalling, it seems to be working much better at this writing, I'll get new brushes ordered and hopefully this should solve the problem.
Thanks to everyone who chimed in with their sage advise.

This is why this forum has become a favorite of mine.

machineit2 · Feb 18, 2015

eksinger said:
Yes haastec, you and a couple of others did mentioned that a year ago.. my patients and procrastination all rolled into one let it go this far.
At the time it was still somewhat working and needed to get jobs out the door.
also was unsure just how to tackle the problem, I could only get enough dexterity to pull out one of the brushes to clean it up at the time, not realizing the I could just remove the entire back cap of the motor to gain access to both brushes. So it was easier to just trudge through it..

Fast forward to now, I had had enough, and started digging into it. after pulling the back of the motor cap off and cleaning out the brushes, then reinstalling, it seems to be working much better at this writing, I'll get new brushes ordered and hopefully this should solve the problem.
Thanks to everyone who chimed in with their sage advise. This is why this forum has become a favorite of mine.

If you have the ability, you really need to pull the motor off and clean the commutator on the armature with some sandpaper. Only then will it really be good.

Mike

haastec · Feb 18, 2015

machineit2 said:
If you have the ability, you really need to pull the motor off and clean the commutator on the armature with some sandpaper. Only then will it really be good.

Mike

Agreed!

Just had to bust your chops a little eksinger, it's all good! Glad you got it figured out though.
Also, not sure how much you were able to adjust the clutch, but you may want to try and reverse what you did as to not overwork your freshened up motor.

1991 Haas Vf-1 Tool changer slip clutch umbrella type

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