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1992 HAAS VF-1 Tool Changer Issues

npolanosky

Cast Iron
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Location
USA, FL
Hi all,
At my local makerspace, FamiLAB, we have an older HAAS VF-1 that we brought back from the dead. I've been making pretty extensive use of it lately, but it recently started having some problems with the ATC. It's the umbrella type toolchanger, and it keeps throwing a 115 Turret Rotate Fault alarm. It used to just do this occasionially and we would hit reset and ignore the issue, but the other day it was in the middle of a toolchange during a program and crashed.

From what I can tell, the Mark switch on the ATC motor stuck and it rotated further than it should have, so instead of depositing the tool in the proper empty pocket, it tried to drop it off in a full one. I punched Estop, but it had already run into a tool and slightly scratched the taper :(

I zeroed the ZZ axis to retract the shuttle, re-homed everything, and unloaded the ATC of tools. After inspecting everything for damage, I determined things were mechanically OK- the clutch on the shuttle kept it from crashing with too much force. After that, the troubleshooting began. Obviously there was a reason the alarm happened, and it was probably related to the reason it crashed. I did some digging on PM and other places, and it sounded like the prime candidates were the ATC motor, mark and first position switches, fuses, and relays on the IO board.

First things first I inspected the IO board. Everything looked good on relays K9-k12- The nice Omron relays functioned properly and were in good shape. Next, I pulled the cover off the ATC cabinet above the umbrella. This revealed the motor, some connectors, and a couple of switches.

I played with M39 a bit, jogging the carousel around some on it's own, with intermittent results. The motor was definitely good, it moved at about the prescribed 28RPM and was getting the proper voltage. I opened the DIAG screen up and watched the MARK and FIRST switches closely. They appeared to react, but sometimes the MARK switch would take about 1-1.5 seconds to go from the "1" back to the "0" position. That's about as long as the machine takes to get from one position to another. I did this some more, and it appeared to be consistently intermittent if that makes sense. It did it every 3-4 tool changes.

I think the alarm was because the system was doing a logic check to ensure the motor was rotating when it should have been and rotating the correct amount. When the switch did not release, it kept applying power to the motor for a short time and then timed out. When the toolchanger crashed without alarming, it must have just timed things right to make it to the next spot without triggering the alarm.

I found parameters to adjust the timeout, #60 and 61; TURRET START DELAY and TURRET STOP DELAY. If I made them both larger, I could get the ATC to make a full rotation successfully, but it would occasionally "skip" one or more tool positions due to the switch issue. For example, I would command it to position 8 and it would go to #9. I would send it back to #1 and it would then hit #2, causing an alarm since it expected to be at #1 but the FIRST switch wasn't hit.


After all of this experimentation, I decided to just replace the switch. I had attempted cleaning it, but it was sealed; The front was held together with roll pins only accessible from one side, and the back was potted in epoxy. Oh well. An identical switch was not available, but it was possible to purchase a compatible equivalent from HAASParts.com - SWITCH, MECHANICAL 4W/4P M-CONNECTOR 2. FT | Switches / Sensors | Umbrella | Automatic Tool Changer | Find Replacement Parts | Haas Parts | Genuine OEM Haas Automation(R) Parts Factory-Direct

I found the same switch on Mouser.com for $6 less, but it had bare ends and I just didn't feel like messing around with wiring, so I spent the extra $6+shipping and ordered it through HAAS. Talked with the local HFO as expected, but of course it had to be shipped from california anyway. Sigh, more downtime! :Yawn:

I'm hoping this is the solution and the machine is back up soon. I may have to replace the other switches too over time, but at $80ea and not running a job shop with the machine I'll do them as they fail.

I think I correctly diagnosed this problem, and I hope someone else with the same issue comes across it in the future and is helped by it. In the meantime I'll keep you guys updated with the results in the next few days. If you have other ideas for a fix and you think I missed the mark (So to speak) on this one, I'd love to hear your thoughts/comments/profanity.

Thanks!
Nick
 
You can clean the switch with electrical cleaner and usually get it going again...for a short time. A dab of grease will prevent coolant and moisture from going in and can give you more time...maybe...sometimes.


If I need machine running, I'll just watch the diagnostic screen and work switch with cleaner, blow it out...more cleaner till screen responce is instantaneous, add a dab of grease and reinstall till new switch comes in....then replace...don't wait as the quick fix will not last long and the damage it can do is worse then replacing switch.

FYI- buy a spare or two to keep on hand...they are a very common problem on these machines and the switches are all over. As mentioned watch diagnostic screen and watch them them change...if slow, thats your problem. Also if you can reach switch...it should feel crisp as it trips...you'll get to know a bad switch quickly when checking.

FYI- switches are all about the same...however from Haas the pigtails are specific for each location.
Some cables are a bear to run...the one you mention may be one of them if I recall...having to snake thru bulkhead fittings and the cable supports are hard to reach unless you remove some stuff.

I have been known to snip cables in an easy to access ares, add heat shrink tube, splice the 2 cable wires, tin'em, heat shrink em and reinstall. Quicker and easier then running the cable and it becomes a one switch fits all. Never had a cable go bad...just the switch.
 
Is there an easy way to get the switches open? It's got epoxy goop on one side and roll pins holding in the other. Could probably have it working if I could get it open. HAAS is shipping the switch from cali so it could be a couple more days :(
 
Is there an easy way to get the switches open? It's got epoxy goop on one side and roll pins holding in the other. Could probably have it working if I could get it open. HAAS is shipping the switch from cali so it could be a couple more days :(

I have broke a few open...not much left to assemble when I was done.

Usually gummed up from coolant...good dose of electrical cleaner or light solvent around plunger area then keep working it, squirt it, work it till it free s up has almost always got me a few days of running. Could take a few minutes before it gets freed up enough to work...then do it a few more minutes.

When in need of parts, UPS RED Label can be your friend.
 
I have broke a few open...not much left to assemble when I was done.

Usually gummed up from coolant...good dose of electrical cleaner or light solvent around plunger area then keep working it, squirt it, work it till it free s up has almost always got me a few days of running. Could take a few minutes before it gets freed up enough to work...then do it a few more minutes.

When in need of parts, UPS RED Label can be your friend.

+1, there most likely won't be anything useable after breaking the switch open.
+1 on the shipping. Next day air if it has to get running!

Good luck!
 
Figured I'd drop by and mention the new switch fixed the problem. All is well, machine is running great!



I learned early on that those switches were Haas's problem child. One by one I learned were each sits on the machine as I saw techs go into replace'em...soon I was able to diagnose and swap them out myself. Made sure that is one item I always kept on the shelf.

New machines have those limit switches changed out to Proximity switches...better, but not perfect. Funny how a chip can weasel its way into the oddest places and land on a switches face setting it off.
 
Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. I'm kicking myself now though, I could have been up and running same day- The door switches are the same ones!! I could have swapped one, and if the door switch stuck closed for an extra second it would be at worst an inconvenience. Oh well, at least I know for the next time I'm in a pinch. :)
 
I had to replace a couple of broken switches on my VF-1. I purchased Omron 653-D4MC-5020 switches from Mouser for $44.
Omron_switch.jpg
 
Hey magno, thanks for posting that switch. Do you re use your old cable or do you buy new? If new, what do you buy? What about plug on end?
 
I used the old cable. The wires had U terminals on them so just unscrewed from the old and onto the new.
If you need new cable try allelectronics.com. They have jacketed 22 gauge stranded foil shield with drain in 2,3,4,5 and 10 conductor in 10ft, 50ft and longer. Much cheaper than the electronic parts houses and they do not sell shorter than 500ft rolls. Example, 2 conductor, 10ft is $2.40.
For the plug at the computer end I get terminals from Mouser.
 








 
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