npolanosky
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2016
- Location
- USA, FL
Hi all,
At my local makerspace, FamiLAB, we have an older HAAS VF-1 that we brought back from the dead. I've been making pretty extensive use of it lately, but it recently started having some problems with the ATC. It's the umbrella type toolchanger, and it keeps throwing a 115 Turret Rotate Fault alarm. It used to just do this occasionially and we would hit reset and ignore the issue, but the other day it was in the middle of a toolchange during a program and crashed.
From what I can tell, the Mark switch on the ATC motor stuck and it rotated further than it should have, so instead of depositing the tool in the proper empty pocket, it tried to drop it off in a full one. I punched Estop, but it had already run into a tool and slightly scratched the taper
I zeroed the ZZ axis to retract the shuttle, re-homed everything, and unloaded the ATC of tools. After inspecting everything for damage, I determined things were mechanically OK- the clutch on the shuttle kept it from crashing with too much force. After that, the troubleshooting began. Obviously there was a reason the alarm happened, and it was probably related to the reason it crashed. I did some digging on PM and other places, and it sounded like the prime candidates were the ATC motor, mark and first position switches, fuses, and relays on the IO board.
First things first I inspected the IO board. Everything looked good on relays K9-k12- The nice Omron relays functioned properly and were in good shape. Next, I pulled the cover off the ATC cabinet above the umbrella. This revealed the motor, some connectors, and a couple of switches.
I played with M39 a bit, jogging the carousel around some on it's own, with intermittent results. The motor was definitely good, it moved at about the prescribed 28RPM and was getting the proper voltage. I opened the DIAG screen up and watched the MARK and FIRST switches closely. They appeared to react, but sometimes the MARK switch would take about 1-1.5 seconds to go from the "1" back to the "0" position. That's about as long as the machine takes to get from one position to another. I did this some more, and it appeared to be consistently intermittent if that makes sense. It did it every 3-4 tool changes.
I think the alarm was because the system was doing a logic check to ensure the motor was rotating when it should have been and rotating the correct amount. When the switch did not release, it kept applying power to the motor for a short time and then timed out. When the toolchanger crashed without alarming, it must have just timed things right to make it to the next spot without triggering the alarm.
I found parameters to adjust the timeout, #60 and 61; TURRET START DELAY and TURRET STOP DELAY. If I made them both larger, I could get the ATC to make a full rotation successfully, but it would occasionally "skip" one or more tool positions due to the switch issue. For example, I would command it to position 8 and it would go to #9. I would send it back to #1 and it would then hit #2, causing an alarm since it expected to be at #1 but the FIRST switch wasn't hit.
After all of this experimentation, I decided to just replace the switch. I had attempted cleaning it, but it was sealed; The front was held together with roll pins only accessible from one side, and the back was potted in epoxy. Oh well. An identical switch was not available, but it was possible to purchase a compatible equivalent from HAASParts.com - SWITCH, MECHANICAL 4W/4P M-CONNECTOR 2. FT | Switches / Sensors | Umbrella | Automatic Tool Changer | Find Replacement Parts | Haas Parts | Genuine OEM Haas Automation(R) Parts Factory-Direct
I found the same switch on Mouser.com for $6 less, but it had bare ends and I just didn't feel like messing around with wiring, so I spent the extra $6+shipping and ordered it through HAAS. Talked with the local HFO as expected, but of course it had to be shipped from california anyway. Sigh, more downtime!
I'm hoping this is the solution and the machine is back up soon. I may have to replace the other switches too over time, but at $80ea and not running a job shop with the machine I'll do them as they fail.
I think I correctly diagnosed this problem, and I hope someone else with the same issue comes across it in the future and is helped by it. In the meantime I'll keep you guys updated with the results in the next few days. If you have other ideas for a fix and you think I missed the mark (So to speak) on this one, I'd love to hear your thoughts/comments/profanity.
Thanks!
Nick
At my local makerspace, FamiLAB, we have an older HAAS VF-1 that we brought back from the dead. I've been making pretty extensive use of it lately, but it recently started having some problems with the ATC. It's the umbrella type toolchanger, and it keeps throwing a 115 Turret Rotate Fault alarm. It used to just do this occasionially and we would hit reset and ignore the issue, but the other day it was in the middle of a toolchange during a program and crashed.
From what I can tell, the Mark switch on the ATC motor stuck and it rotated further than it should have, so instead of depositing the tool in the proper empty pocket, it tried to drop it off in a full one. I punched Estop, but it had already run into a tool and slightly scratched the taper
I zeroed the ZZ axis to retract the shuttle, re-homed everything, and unloaded the ATC of tools. After inspecting everything for damage, I determined things were mechanically OK- the clutch on the shuttle kept it from crashing with too much force. After that, the troubleshooting began. Obviously there was a reason the alarm happened, and it was probably related to the reason it crashed. I did some digging on PM and other places, and it sounded like the prime candidates were the ATC motor, mark and first position switches, fuses, and relays on the IO board.
First things first I inspected the IO board. Everything looked good on relays K9-k12- The nice Omron relays functioned properly and were in good shape. Next, I pulled the cover off the ATC cabinet above the umbrella. This revealed the motor, some connectors, and a couple of switches.
I played with M39 a bit, jogging the carousel around some on it's own, with intermittent results. The motor was definitely good, it moved at about the prescribed 28RPM and was getting the proper voltage. I opened the DIAG screen up and watched the MARK and FIRST switches closely. They appeared to react, but sometimes the MARK switch would take about 1-1.5 seconds to go from the "1" back to the "0" position. That's about as long as the machine takes to get from one position to another. I did this some more, and it appeared to be consistently intermittent if that makes sense. It did it every 3-4 tool changes.
I think the alarm was because the system was doing a logic check to ensure the motor was rotating when it should have been and rotating the correct amount. When the switch did not release, it kept applying power to the motor for a short time and then timed out. When the toolchanger crashed without alarming, it must have just timed things right to make it to the next spot without triggering the alarm.
I found parameters to adjust the timeout, #60 and 61; TURRET START DELAY and TURRET STOP DELAY. If I made them both larger, I could get the ATC to make a full rotation successfully, but it would occasionally "skip" one or more tool positions due to the switch issue. For example, I would command it to position 8 and it would go to #9. I would send it back to #1 and it would then hit #2, causing an alarm since it expected to be at #1 but the FIRST switch wasn't hit.
After all of this experimentation, I decided to just replace the switch. I had attempted cleaning it, but it was sealed; The front was held together with roll pins only accessible from one side, and the back was potted in epoxy. Oh well. An identical switch was not available, but it was possible to purchase a compatible equivalent from HAASParts.com - SWITCH, MECHANICAL 4W/4P M-CONNECTOR 2. FT | Switches / Sensors | Umbrella | Automatic Tool Changer | Find Replacement Parts | Haas Parts | Genuine OEM Haas Automation(R) Parts Factory-Direct
I found the same switch on Mouser.com for $6 less, but it had bare ends and I just didn't feel like messing around with wiring, so I spent the extra $6+shipping and ordered it through HAAS. Talked with the local HFO as expected, but of course it had to be shipped from california anyway. Sigh, more downtime!
I'm hoping this is the solution and the machine is back up soon. I may have to replace the other switches too over time, but at $80ea and not running a job shop with the machine I'll do them as they fail.
I think I correctly diagnosed this problem, and I hope someone else with the same issue comes across it in the future and is helped by it. In the meantime I'll keep you guys updated with the results in the next few days. If you have other ideas for a fix and you think I missed the mark (So to speak) on this one, I'd love to hear your thoughts/comments/profanity.
Thanks!
Nick