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1995 Haas VF1 tool changer issues or operator (me) issues?

I

IronReb

Stainless
Joined
May 26, 2011
Location
Shreveport/Louisiana USA
Aquired use of a 1995 VF1 mill.

I can tell you everything I know of setting up a vmc in 3 seconds but have a very good understanding of the basics and have 15 years g coding a has lathe.


I loaded a tool into the spindle by using the button on the control.

Then I entered M06 T1
Machine loaded the tool into the T1 carrousel pocket...sweet, next tool.
Did the same with another tool M06 T2, sweet...it loaded it into pocket 2

When I did another M06 t1 it did its thing but totally missed the drive dogs on the tool.

From my limited experience the machine does not seem to be orientating the spindle and is just pocking it into the carrousel how ever it choses.

I ASSumed the control is supposed to orientate the spindle itself and load/unload accordingly.

Am I doing something wrong or is there an issue?
May be why there were no tool loaded in the carrousel, because of this issue?

If the machine has a malfunction, were would I start my search for the problem?

Also, when I loaded the tools I used the first one to set G54 Z0.
Then with the next tool I touched off in Z and pushed the tool offset measure in the tool geometry page (same way I set Z in the lathe), but when I MDI that tool to Z0 it is WAY off. Noticed the number in the geometry for that tool was a positive number were as tools loaded from way back when were - numbers.

Could someone school me the proper way to set my tools? (no manual)

Thanks in advance for your help.
 
I'm pretty sure the machines of this vintage use a shot-pin to locate the spindle for tool changing, and one of the weaknesses of the older Haas mills is solenoids starting to fail due to sticking caused by not having clean enough air. If you press the "ORIENT SPINDLE" button does the spindle consistently make one revolution and then solidly lock in place? Start there, let us know the results.
 
Yes, shot pin. I thought there was a limit switch on the shot pin though. It should give you a spindle orient alarm.
 
Try M19 to orient the spindle first. On mine (2005,2006) it automatically orients on the first toolchange and stays there.

For the tool length offsets, there are different ways depending on personal preference. For your example, set G54 Z to zero. Activate G54 in MDI and set your length offsets. They should all be neg. numbers. It's basically the distance from the tip of the tool to your workpiece at Z home.
 
Milland said:
I'm pretty sure the machines of this vintage use a shot-pin to locate the spindle for tool changing, and one of the weaknesses of the older Haas mills is solenoids starting to fail due to sticking caused by not having clean enough air. If you press the "ORIENT SPINDLE" button does the spindle consistently make one revolution and then solidly lock in place? Start there, let us know the results.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply.

If time permits I will give that a go and report back.
 
Booze Daily said:
Try M19 to orient the spindle first. On mine (2005,2006) it automatically orients on the first toolchange and stays there.

For the tool length offsets, there are different ways depending on personal preference. For your example, set G54 Z to zero. Activate G54 in MDI and set your length offsets. They should all be neg. numbers. It's basically the distance from the tip of the tool to your workpiece at Z home.
Click to expand...

Will try M19 and see if it repeats location of the spindle orientation and report back.

Thanks fellows.
 
IronReb said:
Will look for and run WD-40 or what ever I can get my hands on through it to clean it out, I am sure the solenoids have been through hell as well as the limit switches.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't recommend WD-40 for cleaning as it can leave a residue that can become sticky itself. Not sure what to use for cleaning, the solenoids (if that's the issue) are reasonable from Haas and the best bet is to replace them and make sure you've got good water/oil and particulate filters on your air source.
 
Usually the orientation collar wears out long before the shot pin or solenoid. There should be a limit switch on the shot pin. When the shot pin engages the notch on the collar, the limit switch is made and the machine knows it is oriented.

If you take the cover off the spindle you will see what's going on.
 
You may also have to realign the orientation collar so the tools line up with the pocket (X alignment). The Y alignment is by adjusting the V rollers on the back of the tool changer.
The tools cannot go in any orientation, there is a block at the base of the fingers that keeps the tool orientated in the carrousel.
If the shot pin sticks and does not go in the spindle will rotate until it times out and sends an alarm. Another adjustment is the spindle speed for tool change in the parameters. Too fast and the pin skips over the detent. Too slow and the pin drag on the spindle stops it, usually high gear where there is less torque.
WD-40 is not a lubricant (WaterDisplacement-40) but it is great for cleaning but as Milland said, you have to wipe it off afterward or it will collect dirt.
I set my tools using a 1/2" carbide shank and roll it under each tool and the part and have Z set at -0.500 at setting 54.
 
Only had a minute before walking out the door to fool with the mill today..

Went into MDI and entered M19 and pushed cycle start.
I could hear the solenoid actuating but the spindle did not orientate.
By hand I rotated the spindle clockwise until it bumped its stop, it appeared to be inline with X.
Cycled M19 several more times and a few times it worked correctly, twice it rotated some but not all the way.

Will climb up and look over the works to get an idea whats happening tomorrow if time permits.
 
You may have to fiddle with the spindle drive. The spindle basically "jogs" at a low RPM while the shot pin pushes on the collar. When the shot pin engages the notch in the collar, it holds the spindle and gives you the "orientation". The shot pin should have a limit switch that tells the machine when it drops in the notch. When that limit switch is made the spindle should stop and the tool change can take place.

You need to check that limit switch. I can't remember exactly how it is set up. Something is not right.
 
I messed around with it a little yesterday.
Got it to orientate correctly for 4 times in a row then the next 4 times it failed to do it on its on.

Gonna try a work around till we can afford to call in a tech.

Planning on using M00 at end of each cycle followed with an M19 so I can help it orientate between tool changes.

I am still stumped on tool offset length though.

Loaded T1, touched work and hit the XY and Z work offset button in the offset screen on the G54 line.

Loaded T2 and touched off on the work in Z then went to the tool geometry screen and pushed the tool offset measure button.

T1 will MDI to the correct Z0 but T2 will not...I dunno WTF, will play with it some more next week.
 
Did you use G43 H1 to activate the tool length offset?

Was the work offset you touched off active when you touched off tool 2? If you set G54, you need to go to MDI and type in G54.
 
Haas Tool Touch off is "too simple" for most.


Go to offset page and page down to Tool Offset page.

Put tool in spindle, make sure that location is highlighted by the cursor on screen.

Jog handle in Z to touchoff your work surface...I like a piece of paper as a shim.
When you have where you want..
Press "Tool Offset Measure Button and machine stores that number in the proper location.


Want to set the next tool....Press "Next Tool" button and machine will load the measured tool, and index to the next tool, loading if in machine or you manually insert into spindle. Jog down, touch off, press Tool Offset Measure and next tool...or if a certain tool you can type T8 or whatever and hit Next Tool...Tool in spindle is sent into location and requested Tool position is readied for touch off.

FYI- my 95 machine does not have the Shot Pin as does my 91. I am quite sure spindle indexes off the encoder. Could be a worn belt or encoder pulley or pulley could be loose...among other things. But those are quick and easy checks and fixes I'd check first.
 
Set your G54 with X and Y, but set your tools on the tool offset page. Setting Z for G54 changes the way the next tool on so on are set. Your toll one will be at the top of the part but two and so on will be added to from the top.
 
Success!!
Got the tool length offsets worked out per post above and I thank yall very much.

Now that I got that figured out I was able to work with it a bit and guess what...
The bitch alarms out at anything above 800 RPM, high and low gear. Alarm number 123

The drive says output signal loss...will be calling the man.
I think it has some major issues in the spindle, sounds like a freaking log truck, that cant be right.
 
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