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Adding a full 4th axis to a HAAS vertical mill.

GReed

Plastic
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Location
Detroit, MI
Good Afternoon,

I'm looking for some advice. A buddy of mine has purchased a used HAAS VF-1 (a couple of years old) and is now looking to add a full 4th axis. He has spotted a HAAS table on e-bay (complete with interface, motor, etc.) and is convinced he can simply install the unit in his machine and will be all set.

I think my friend is incorrect. I've been told that HAAS purposely leaves out the necessary logic in their controls that will enable a full 4th axis to function unless you purchase the unit through them.

Which one of us (if either) is correct?

Thanks.
 
Well, to add a 4th axis, you need a 4th axis drive card. Has nothing to do with leaving logic out.
If the machine has 2 connectors on the side that say "4th Axis", then it has it. Otherwise you need to update the control
or go through an interface box. Using an interface box will never give you a full 4th, only an indexer.
There are also different control requirements, a simple call to Haas and they can tell you if the control and the rotary
will work together.

The main problem here- The words "Rotary Table" and "Ebay" should never appear in the same sentence.
 
Good Afternoon,

I'm looking for some advice. A buddy of mine has purchased a used HAAS VF-1 (a couple of years old) and is now looking to add a full 4th axis. He has spotted a HAAS table on e-bay (complete with interface, motor, etc.) and is convinced he can simply install the unit in his machine and will be all set.

I think my friend is incorrect. I've been told that HAAS purposely leaves out the necessary logic in their controls that will enable a full 4th axis to function unless you purchase the unit through them.

Which one of us (if either) is correct?

Thanks.

Installing the additional axis drive is not hard. You can call HAAS and they will give you the code to punch in, after that it is a couple of parameter changes. Just verify the used 4th will interface with the newish machine.
 
not sure if it applies to your specific model and for the addition of the 4th axis however when I tried to add a probe on my 2008 TM-1P a few years ago I would have had to pay for the codes to unlock "macros" and that alone was going to cost me $5000 if I remember correctly.

Make sure your friend knows everything involved, upgrading some Haas machines later on costs more than 1/2 the value of the machine sometimes.
 
not sure if it applies to your specific model and for the addition of the 4th axis however when I tried to add a probe on my 2008 TM-1P a few years ago I would have had to pay for the codes to unlock "macros" and that alone was going to cost me $5000 if I remember correctly.

Make sure your friend knows everything involved, upgrading some Haas machines later on costs more than 1/2 the value of the machine sometimes.

They didn't charge me to unlock the machine, FYI.

Tim
 
The axis drive card is listed with the HAAS rotary table my buddy is looking to purchase. Assuming this card is compatible with the used VF-1, is it really as easy as calling HAAS for the code? I assume they charge for the code? How would I go about verifying that the interface would be compatible with the used machine?

Thanks.
 
You need to check that the machine is pre-wired for the 4th axis. Just open the cabinet door and see if there are four drive cards. Then look to see if the fouth axis one is brush and brushless or just brushless (check the papers inside that list all of the options). Almost all machines are shipped with a fourth axis installed.

You do not need macros etc.

If it is wired, check to see if it has the connectors for brush and/or brushless. If it is a new machine, it may only have connectors for brushless 4ths. You would need adapter if they don't match. Brush has one large connector with 17 pins. The brushless ones have two connectors, one large and one small connector.

Added: You make me very nervous when you say interface and motor and all! If you intend to run a full 4th axis you will not use the controller, that would not be full 4th. What exactly is he looking at. There are a lot of very old 5c units out there that you do not want at all.

Mike
 
to have a full 4th axis you need the drive on the machine. if there are 4th axis connectors coming out the back of the machine then it has the 4th axis option.

if it does not have the connectors you need to have the drive physically installed in the machine. or you can use a 4th axis indexer with the stand alone controller, but this does not allow full 4th axis.
 
you got the macros added to your original machine (that didn't come with macros) for free?

Since the conversation was about a 4th axis - NO.

I bought a 4th off of ebay. Called my HOF and ordered the drive/wire kit and installed it. Called HAAS 1800 number and got the code from them.

Tim
 
Good Afternoon,

I'm looking for some advice. A buddy of mine has purchased a used HAAS VF-1 (a couple of years old) and is now looking to add a full 4th axis. He has spotted a HAAS table on e-bay (complete with interface, motor, etc.) and is convinced he can simply install the unit in his machine and will be all set.

I think my friend is incorrect. I've been told that HAAS purposely leaves out the necessary logic in their controls that will enable a full 4th axis to function unless you purchase the unit through them.

Which one of us (if either) is correct?

Thanks.

There are a lot of good replies with good information that should help you out.
That said, the way you worded your thread title and original question create some questions and confusion for me.

This is purely semantics, but semantics are important to make sure you understand what you need and what you are looking to purchase is correct.

Adding full 4th Axis to a Haas Vertical Mill means that the rotary product is plugged in directly to the machine and machine controls all rotary functions.

Complete with interface, motor, etc is very confusing because interface means you have a seperate controller box for the rotary (this is NOT full 4th Axis) motor, etc is very vague. The rotary product is a complet unit that includes a motor and etc items. Not trying to be a jerk, but this is confusing and like I said, semantics are important here.

To review, if you want a 2 year old machine to run a used rotary table for FULL 4TH AXIS, first you need to determine if the rotary product is BRUSH or BRUSHLESS; this is critical!!!!

Once you know if it is brush or brushless, you need to determine if the machine is set up for it. If there is no connection on the side of the machine cabinet to connect the rotary to, you need to call your dealer and they will set you up with the correct parts that you need to order. You may have to purchase the unlock code but behindpropellers obviously had a different experience.

If the machine does have connection(s) for a rotary table on the side of the cabinet then you again need to determine if you have the right connections for Brush or Brushless. 1 plug connector is for a BRUSH rotary, 2 connectors is for a BRUSHLESS.

A note to anyone looking at the drive cards, just because the machine uses a BRUSHLESS drive card does NOT mean the machine is set up for a BRUSHLESS rotary. A brush rotary setup can include a brushless drive and other parts to run. Look at the connectors to determine what you have.

I hope this helps.


And to answer your question about who is right...... it depends! (crappy answer huh?)
 
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There are a lot of good replies with good information that should help you out.
That said, the way you worded your thread title and original question create some questions and confusion for me.

This is purely semantics, but semantics are important to make sure you understand what you need and what you are looking to purchase is correct.

Adding full 4th Axis to a Haas Vertical Mill means that the rotary product is plugged in directly to the machine and machine controls all rotary functions.

Complete with interface, motor, etc is very confusing because interface means you have a seperate controller box for the rotary (this is NOT full 4th Axis) motor, etc is very vague. The rotary product is a complet unit that includes a motor and etc items. Not trying to be a jerk, but this is confusing and like I said, semantics are important here.

To review, if you want a 2 year old machine to run a used rotary table for FULL 4TH AXIS, first you need to determine if the rotary product is BRUSH or BRUSHLESS; this is critical!!!!

Once you know if it is brush or brushless, you need to determine if the machine is set up for it. If there is no connection on the side of the machine cabinet to connect the rotary to, you need to call your dealer and they will set you up with the correct parts that you need to order. You may have to purchase the unlock code but behindpropellers obviously had a different experience.

If the machine does have connection(s) for a rotary table on the side of the cabinet then you again need to determine if you have the right connections for Brush or Brushless. 1 plug connector is for a BRUSH rotary, 2 connectors is for a BRUSHLESS.

A note to anyone looking at the drive cards, just because the machine uses a BRUSHLESS drive card does NOT mean the machine is set up for a BRUSHLESS rotary. A brush rotary setup can include a brushless drive and other parts to run. Look at the connectors to determine what you have.

I hope this helps.


And to answer your question about who is right...... it depends! (crappy answer huh?)

The older machines like mine, 90's, used to ship with a 4th drive that was brush or brushless for the 4th axis and brushless for the XY and Z drives. Most were wired for brush though as most 4ths were brush back then.

Haastec: Question: I just got another machine, a 97 VF-2 with fourth axis, but the drive for it is a 30amp Smart-amp looking Silver drive for the 4th and the wiring is for a brush axis. Do the Smart amps work both brush and brushless? This drive is not exactly like my other two Smart-amps, as it still has the low voltage inputs at the top and the Smart-amps do not have them any longer. Don't want to just throw the HA5C on it to find out! :)

Mike
 
Hello Haastec,

Thank you very much for the reply. I understand what you mean by being clear. My only experience has been with Mazak machine tools. In Mazak land, the interface is the actual cables that run between the rotary table itself and the 4th axis drive. I mentioned this because my buddy kept finding used units that had been robbed of the motor, the cable, or in some cases, both were missing.

I do know the difference between an indexer and a full 4th. There is no stand alone controller box that we are looking to install. I have seen these before on HAAS machines and other machine tools. I know they will not allow full 4th axis operation.

Honestly, the biggest concern he has is procuring all the necessary components only to find that some code is required to activate the unit. Is a code required to active a full 4th axis? Is there a charge for this code? If indeed a code is required, do you get charged more by trying to add this on your own instead of getting HAAS service involved?

Any help you could provide would be most appreciated.

Thanks.
 
There are no codes, just get a good unit to begin with. All this vague info is just frustrating. Have your buddy post the real info.

Mike
 
Is there a reason why the OP can't just call Haas, give them the machine number and let them tell him exactly what 4th axis will work and exactly whether he needs to purchase any codes or not? Every time I have had any question(s) about either of my Haas mills, I have just called Haas – or more exactly my local dealer – and they have either immediately answered my question or called me back with the answer very quickly. Didn't matter if it was about the machine I bought new or the one I bought used from a private seller.
 
The older machines like mine, 90's, used to ship with a 4th drive that was brush or brushless for the 4th axis and brushless for the XY and Z drives. Most were wired for brush though as most 4ths were brush back then.

Haastec: Question: I just got another machine, a 97 VF-2 with fourth axis, but the drive for it is a 30amp Smart-amp looking Silver drive for the 4th and the wiring is for a brush axis. Do the Smart amps work both brush and brushless? This drive is not exactly like my other two Smart-amps, as it still has the low voltage inputs at the top and the Smart-amps do not have them any longer. Don't want to just throw the HA5C on it to find out! :)

Mike


Pretty much every machine that I have seen which has a brushless amp and a brush rotary has a transformer like this at the bottom of the cabinet to provide the DC conversion.
 

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Honestly, the biggest concern he has is procuring all the necessary components only to find that some code is required to activate the unit. Is a code required to active a full 4th axis? Is there a charge for this code? If indeed a code is required, do you get charged more by trying to add this on your own instead of getting HAAS service involved?

Any help you could provide would be most appreciated.

Thanks.


The age of the machine will determine if it requires a code or not.
As said many times, have your friend call his HFO. Give them the serial number to the machine and they will be able to answer all his questions about what, if anything, is required to connect a 4th axis.

There simply is not enough details provided to give an accurate answer. CALL THE DEALER for faster and more accurate answers.

Good luck!
 








 
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