Compare VF-2 to a VF-2SS

Considering a used VF-2SS.

I have stayed with the standard VF's as I don't really care about the extra speed of the SS models and preferred the extra beef.
Looking to up our capacity a bit, a SS model is priced about right...

Anyone play with the two models for a comparison?
We do mostly everything from drilling plastics, hogging Alum to full machining of 316SS housings.

Pro's cons thoughts....thanks.

SIM said:

Considering a used VF-2SS.

I have stayed with the standard VF's as I don't really care about the extra speed of the SS models and preferred the extra beef.
Looking to up our capacity a bit, a SS model is priced about right...

Anyone play with the two models for a comparison?
We do mostly everything from drilling plastics, hogging Alum to full machining of 316SS housings.

Pro's cons thoughts....thanks.

Click to expand...

I don't have any experience with either of both, but as I understand, they have the same frame. What do you mean with the 'extra beef'?

No comparison. If you're buying new and you aren't living in the 20th century with a stockpile of large diameter HSS with sentimental value, SS models all the way.

My first VMC was a well used Johnford w/ umbrella style tool changer.
Bought a brand new VF2-SS in '05. Side mount tool changer, probe and tool presetter, 4th axis with tombstone.

HUGE difference! Cycle times were way shorter, monthly sales went up because we were able to get more thru the shop.

SIM said:

Considering a used VF-2SS.

I have stayed with the standard VF's as I don't really care about the extra speed of the SS models and preferred the extra beef.
Looking to up our capacity a bit, a SS model is priced about right...

Anyone play with the two models for a comparison?
We do mostly everything from drilling plastics, hogging Alum to full machining of 316SS housings.

Pro's cons thoughts....thanks.

Click to expand...

By "extra beef" I am assuming you are referring to a gear-box spindle, and fine-pitch ball-screws?
Because, otherwise, they are the same machine. Same castings. Same spindle cartridge. Same same same.

In red: have you considered a Doosan? You can have the speed, AND the beef, for basically the same money.

wheelieking71 said:

By "extra beef" I am assuming you are referring to a gear-box spindle, and fine-pitch ball-screws?
Because, otherwise, they are the same machine. Same castings. Same spindle cartridge. Same same same.

In red: have you considered a Doosan? You can have the speed, AND the beef, for basically the same money.

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Mostly the beef being the finer pitch ballscrews. I think the VF series is light duty...going lighter just seems wrong. Yes, everything else is about the same, more speed on same hp motor, faster rapids with higher pitch ball screw.

I have considered Doosan...
...right now the ease of use is my driving factor for Haas. One machine busy...bring it over to the next. No editing programs, no control differences. I was actually looking to go to a mini-mill for space reasons. But I can put any job in a bigger machine, but larger jobs don't fit in smaller machines...for same coin, maybe a used VF-2SS.

Thanks for the input

wheelieking71 said:

have you considered a Doosan? You can have the speed, AND the beef, for basically the same money.

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And you have the choice of Fanuc, Siemens, or Heidenhain control, none of which I'd recommend over the Haas control (for a 3/4 axis VMC anyway).

The real smart upgrade beyond Haas VMC is quite a bit pricier (Okuma). But that's so unnecessary for most shops.

SIM said:

Mostly the beef being the finer pitch ballscrews. I think the VF series is light duty...going lighter just seems wrong. Yes, everything else is about the same, more speed on same hp motor, faster rapids with higher pitch ball screw.

I have considered Doosan...
...right now the ease of use is my driving factor for Haas. One machine busy...bring it over to the next. No editing programs, no control differences. I was actually looking to go to a mini-mill for space reasons. But I can put any job in a bigger machine, but larger jobs don't fit in smaller machines...for same coin, maybe a used VF-2SS.

Thanks for the input

Click to expand...

Same spindle cartridge maybe but the standard VF-2 spindle is 8100RPM, the SS bumps you to 12k. Faster rapids and higher programmable feedrates at the cost of table weight load and about 4/5 of the axis thrust (3/4 in Z). Seeing as how I don't think the spindle will back of either of the thrust parameters without a gearbox, I'd take the faster machine.

I have a 2015 vf2ss and a 2014 vf4ss and right next to them I have a 2016 Doosan dnm5700 ... I run all three most days and I would just say I will never buy a new haas after getting the Doosan ...

Its twice the machine for less $$ ...
REAL HP (not haas power )
chip conveyor ( not a auger )
big 40 spindle
Roller guide ways ( not ball ways )
and over twice the weight of the vf2ss

I thought the same way about the control but after a week or so of working with the fanuc its just as fast as the haas on setups and I really like it ,,, best of all it works GREAT unlike the NEXT GEN machine my HFO had to get out of my shop after 7 months of hell with that control.

FYI
Haas control will take Fanuc programs ,,, there almost the same .. but Fanuc will not take haas code ... I have wrote some programs for my Doosan and ran them in the Haas and they have been working fine .

D.D.Machine said:

I would just say I will never buy a new haas after getting the Doosan ...

.

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That's great DD.

Now just fuck off of this forum and petition the powers-that-be to start one for Doosan and continue ranting there.

I just got my first SS machine a few weeks ago and I cannot understand why Haas even sells the regular models.

They should shrink the line to only SS machines and be done with it.

If you are doing ANY aluminum, your cycle times will decrease by 50%

SeymourDumore said:

That's great DD.

Now just fuck off of this forum and petition the powers-that-be to start one for Doosan and continue ranting there.

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Nope, it's a pretty legitimate datapoint for anyone considering a Haas. It doesn't help anyone to only mention the "good" things about a brand. I own two Haas mills and have initiated purchasing others when I was an employee rather than owner. I'd sure what this heads-up if I was buying another new machine.

SeymourDumore said:

That's great DD.

Now just fuck off of this forum and petition the powers-that-be to start one for Doosan and continue ranting there.

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I assume that was in jest as that was some great info given by DD. I want and asked for a side by side comparison, but tossing in a 3rd option that I may not have considered is great info at this time.


If it was just me running the machine, changing Controls is not a problem, even a benefit as I like to change it up, keeps me on my toes. Gents on the floor "New" becomes a talking point, a water cooler deal where everyone is brought in to give their opinion...even the Welder/operator in need has to give his views on why the program is hanging up and alarming with an X Over Travel Error... Umm two parts programmed and you didn't assign a 2nd work offset...same sh$t as the other machine.

Also if I needed faster cycles, heavier roughing Doosan and Okuma are what I have been looking at as alternatives. Although mostly for turning as those cycles are starting to need reduction.

Appreciate the input.

SIM said:

I assume that was in jest ...

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Not entirely, or even mostly.

You've asked for a specific question: VF or SS and not not Haas or ???

DD has had a bad experience with the new control. We get that, some of it I can personally attest to even.
Make your point heard, he has. Each and every fucking time anything about Haas comes up.
Each and every fucking time!

If those in the market for a new Haas have not seen it yet, it's their own damm fault, because each and every fucking time the topic comes up, he's right there
chiming up.
He hasn't seen the NEW software of the NFG control, neither have I.
I however do know that my rev. is much more stable than the one he had to put up with and eventually get rid of.
If I had the same issues, I prolly would have done the same thing, no matter how much I may like Haas.
I also agree that someone at Haas should get a big stick shoved up his/her ass for not properly testing the NFG control. There is no
acceptable explanation why and how any of them got out of Oxnard with the issues he had, nor for that matter even with the much more minor ones I have.

At the same time they are now fixing it, and apparently my only DANGEROUS issue is already fixed in the latest rev. ( as per a poster in another thread in this forum )

So getting the issues aired is perfectly OK with me, but can we do it within reason, instead of every fucking time the topic comes up?

I understand at some point you do have to cap the spending, but it's not good to be penny-wise and pound-foolish. If you do a lot of plastic or aluminum, or even high-speed machining techniques on steel, you need an SS machine. As someone else said, the regular series are nearly irrelevant. Unless you ONLY do heavy tool steel or superalloy machining, having 12k RPM is never a waste of money... even then, you'd probably be looking into a heavy 50-taper for that stuff! SS all the way.

seymour
As a shop owner that has a vf2ss and does plastic, alum and SS i do not think its out of line to say what I think a buyer might look at in a machine. and if you look at post #6 you well see were the guy that started this post even remarked about "Considered a Doosan" after someone also brought it up.

so I`m sorry if you think its wrong for a shop owner that has both machines brings it up that they like the Doosan machines and that the programming really is not a big deal to go between a fanuc and a haas control ...

I still own 3 haas machines and feel I am not out of line to bring up that some of the other brands have a lot to offer.

D.D.Machine said:

I still own 3 haas machines and feel I am not out of line to bring up that some of the other brands have a lot to offer.

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DD, you're not out of line bringing up valid issues or viable alternatives.
I own 3 Haas VMC-s and 2 Haas lathes.
In addition I also own 2 Mori lathes as well.

Unless Haas doesn't produce something different than what they have now, I'll probably won't have another Haas lathe in this shop, but my reasons are specific to me.
For the very same reasons, I will also not have an Okuma or Doosan, nor most other brands either.

But!

I am not going about and bash Brand Haas, Brand Okuma or Brand (insert target of your dislike here) every chance I get.

Did you get a piece of garbage control? Yupp, you did.
Did Haas make good on their offer? Well sort of, as they took back the piece of garbage they've sold you, even tho you have lost out in the process.

Now that you have no stick in the fire and no longer aware of what may or may not happening with the new control?
Please, feel free to advocate whatever you believe is a better value, but stop bitching about something that's no longer valid for the most part and
let us with a horse in the game keep it going if we feel the need to.
I should have the new release installed in a month or so, and if there are issue I will let the HFO know.
If no resolution, I'll get on Haas-corporate directly.
If still no resolution, then I'll spread my wisdom here for all to see, but only once so people can do their own diligence in researching or Haas to maybe get off their asses.

My new VF4 is now 5 months old, and has paid itself for the next 14 months + profit.
Could a Doosan do that? Probably, if not most likely.
But, in my case all I had to do is to send the existing program(s) to a different machine, knowing that the result will be the same.
Which happens to be the exact reason why I bought it in the first place as I have no time to dick with shit just for the sake of change.

Seymour your 100% right and I`m wrong ... I`m really wishing I was like yourself and ordered a new haas from them 5 months ago and only had a month left to see if they got the bugs worked out ....

Please feel free to correct me but haas started putting the next gen on the horizontal mills about a year and a half ago ,,, and from what my HFO told me they fixed them by shutting down the full horizontal line of machines. and to this day there lathe line is still selling there old controls ...

I so wish I would have keep buying haas machines and spending my money on a product that they might fix at some point ... I really was enjoying having a new machine in the shop that would not make parts and that they got to come and work on day after day to try and fix.

I`m so unhappy with the Doosan that runs everyday and makes parts ,,,
I might just have to go look for a windows Vista or windows 8 computer so I have a computer that needs fixing.

"""Which happens to be the exact reason why I bought it in the first place as I have no time to dick with shit just for the sake of change.""

Good way of looking at it, first off there is not a lot of change from haas code to fanuc code .. way less than most controls,

The big change is not in the programming itself its in the machines , That is were the difference in the two machines stands out. I have a vf4ss right next to the Doosan and its like night and day between them. my stupid way of thinking is if I have more power I`m going to use it , if the machine is more ridged I`m going to use it ,,, and if I have to spend the 5 min to go and repost the code to make better parts faster I will spend the time for the sake of change.

pointing out that brand "A" is more ridged or has more HP or is at a better price point over brand "B" does not mean your bashing brand "B"

I own brand "A" and Brand "B" and see were one has a lot going for it over the other.

Its ok that someone want to buy haas and not Okuma or Doosan nor most other brands ..

D.D.Machine said:

Seymour your 100% right and I`m wrong ...

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That's exactly the point!!!
You're not wrong for bitchin' at Haas, nor are you wrong at wanting what you've paid for!

What it's about though is that they've made changes ( perhaps at your expense ) to get the new shit working better.

You've had your issues and they now have one less customer.
If they don't fix the leftover garbage, they'll have one less customer in the future in my case.

At the same time, You don't know what has or has not been fixed in the new control, so just leave it for those of us who knows to discern for the next guy.

And for the record, neither Haas, Okuma or anyone else gave a flying fuck that I won't buy their lathe offerings because of my own concerns.