DT-1, DM-1 or Super Minimill 2

MaletaBG · Jun 1, 2017

Hi,

I am about to acquire new CNC mill for my workshop. I mainly do aluminium, sheet metal stuff, 4-6 mm thick plates with many slots and holes (reason I do it on mill is 1x1 mm 45 degree edge chamfer on all edges). I will maybe do some billet stuff like handlebar risers, but nothing larger and more serious. I also need to cut some steel from time to time - fixture plates mostly. I use small tools for aluminium milling - 6 mm end mills mostly, some 4 mm and 8 mm, nothing larger, so I need fast spindle. I manufacture my own line of products, in small series (100-200 pieces at a time) and I won't do any milling for anyone else.
Considering my location and service I can get locally (Serbia, Europe), I narrowed my options to few Haas machines - DM-1, DT-1 or Super Minimill 2. 400x500 work envelope will be enough for my products. I am a bit limited with space so I would skip VF-1 since I won't do any hard milling. All these machines, if equipped with 15.000 spindle, Renishaw probing system, minimum quantity lubrication system, automatic air gun and chip auger have very similar costs. Is there a reason to choose one over others, for my needs?

I use Solidworks + HSMXPress for CAD/CAM, so I guess I won't need High speed machining option from Haas as I can generate HSM toolpaths from HSMXpress? Is that correct?

Also, are there any other options for these machines I should consider?

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PriddyShiddy · Jun 2, 2017

If you try to run an HSMWORKS adaptive on a Haas without HSM option you will be in for a rude awakening. HSM option just lets it process code faster... Still not THAT fast for higher accuracy higher speeds. Even with the option it slows significantly depending on accuracy settings. Haas chokes the machines ability to process code and the HSM option just opens the speed back up. It lets people finance a smaller amount, and gives them a better base price to advertise then you can add options later. Some options are just insanely priced (like macros) but not everyone needs them and those that do (like me) will pony up the almost $3K to turn them on.

I cant help on one vs the other, but own 2 Haas and paid for HSM after the fact on the one that didn't have it. In my opinion it's not an option it's a requirement if doing anything other than straight lines and drilling holes.

gkoenig · Jun 2, 2017

MaletaBG said:
Also, are there any other options for these machines I should consider?

Yes, buy a machine that says Speedio or Robodrill on it instead.

MaletaBG · Jun 2, 2017

PriddyShiddy said:
If you try to run an HSMWORKS adaptive on a Haas without HSM option you will be in for a rude awakening. HSM option just lets it process code faster... Still not THAT fast for higher accuracy higher speeds. Even with the option it slows significantly depending on accuracy settings. Haas chokes the machines ability to process code and the HSM option just opens the speed back up. It lets people finance a smaller amount, and gives them a better base price to advertise then you can add options later. Some options are just insanely priced (like macros) but not everyone needs them and those that do (like me) will pony up the almost $3K to turn them on.

I cant help on one vs the other, but own 2 Haas and paid for HSM after the fact on the one that didn't have it. In my opinion it's not an option it's a requirement if doing anything other than straight lines and drilling holes.

Thanks, I will go for HSM option than. Is 'macro option' something I can add later if I find out I need it?

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riabma77 · Jun 2, 2017

MaletaBG said:
Hi,

I am about to acquire new CNC mill for my workshop. I mainly do aluminium, sheet metal stuff, 4-6 mm thick plates with many slots and holes (reason I do it on mill is 1x1 mm 45 degree edge chamfer on all edges). I will maybe do some billet stuff like handlebar risers, but nothing larger and more serious. I also need to cut some steel from time to time - fixture plates mostly. I use small tools for aluminium milling - 6 mm end mills mostly, some 4 mm and 8 mm, nothing larger, so I need fast spindle. I manufacture my own line of products, in small series (100-200 pieces at a time) and I won't do any milling for anyone else.
Considering my location and service I can get locally (Serbia, Europe), I narrowed my options to few Haas machines - DM-1, DT-1 or Super Minimill 2. 400x500 work envelope will be enough for my products. I am a bit limited with space so I would skip VF-1 since I won't do any hard milling. All these machines, if equipped with 15.000 spindle, Renishaw probing system, minimum quantity lubrication system, automatic air gun and chip auger have very similar costs. Is there a reason to choose one over others, for my needs?

I use Solidworks + HSMXPress for CAD/CAM, so I guess I won't need High speed machining option from Haas as I can generate HSM toolpaths from HSMXpress? Is that correct?

Also, are there any other options for these machines I should consider?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

As mentioned above, HSM is a plus. I have a Mini without HSM, and the machine jerks with big tools (12mm and above).
If you have a lot of tools and different parts, the probe package will be a necessity.
Haas doesn't offer anymore the side tool changer in the MM2. It's the standard carousel, which is a pain to clean and maintain.
I will narrow it to DT or DM. Check the electrical requirements. The last time I looked to the DT1, it was a power 'hog'.
Also, Haas recommends to anchor the DT / DM. Be aware of that.

nofxz · Jun 2, 2017

Yes, you can add anything later but like a combo at mcdonalds they love to group up a bunch a stuff and give you a discount at time of sale.

Glaring obvious differences between the three machines
DT-1 is 30k rpm but uses bt30 holders think of it as a small diameter taper section in comparison to cat40. side mount tool changer read fast changes
DM-1 is also a 15k rpm spindle but is cat40 which i would wager is the most widely used standard on the planet, therefore abundant as all hell. side mount tool changer
Super mini mill 2 standard equipment is 7200 rpm, umbrella tool changer with all the problems that come with that. Chip conveyor is a pricey option here in compared to the previous two have it included.

They are not the same price nor the same class of machine as each other. Drill tap made for ultra small repeat work. Drill mill was an extension to that same machine just to use the more standard spindle. Super mini mills are great, if your not planning on running production I bet you can get it nicely equiped for less then starting price of a DM1 which would be my first choice.

Order of importance
Toolchanger
12k is a nice spot in aluminum but 7200 will work
chip conveyor
probing
the rest

haastec · Jun 2, 2017

MaletaBG said:
Thanks, I will go for HSM option than. Is 'macro option' something I can add later if I find out I need it?

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Rigid tap, macros, M19, rotation/scaling will all be included with the Renishaw package. I agree with getting the HSM option as well.

MaletaBG · Jun 2, 2017

Thanks everyone. It is clear now what options I need. I just need to figure out DT-1 vs DM-1 vs Sminimill2. Good thing is that all will do what I need them to do.
DM-1 is most advanced, no doubt. But is 40 taper necessity for aluminium milling I will mostly do. Is 30 taper tooling on DT-1 capable to mill some steel fixturing plates once in a while?
On the other hand, there is Sminimill2. Downside of (properly equipped) Sminimill2 is lack of side mount TC. I never had any TC on machines I worked on, so I don't have much experience. Slower changes is something I could live with, reliability is my primary concern. I will mostly use minimum qty lubrication system, so I guess chips will be flying in there...

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nofxz · Jun 3, 2017

iso 30 taper tooling is more expensive because of the lower consumption of it. Yes of course it could make steel fixtures you need. you just have to adjust your tool paths. What 50 taper to 40 taper to 30 taper can do in a single cut is quite different. Why they all exist. Unless your tool changing every 2 mins for the entire day you will not notice much difference vs umbrella. Look at standard equipment DM-1 vs optioned supermini mill.

Job Shopper TN · Jun 3, 2017

I would go DM-1 all the way. They are very fast. 40 taper tooling will be rigid, and very common and cheap, compared to 30 taper.

I don't think DM-1 vs. SMM is a fair comparison except on the basis of price. More power, much more speed, better toolchanger... really is no contest - again except price. Approximately a $13,000 difference with no options. Expect to really pay at least $70,000 for the DM if you get some decent options with it. High speed machining, for example, would be a must; no point in having 15,000 revs if you can only feed 100 IPM.

I would need to see one in person running, but just based off the information, if I were to buy a Haas, I would buy a DM-2. Haas machines don't have a great deal of nuts or rigidity - so you could make up for it with the fast rapids and high max RPM. Light cuts, but fast. Of course, still not fast like a fancier machine, but. That may help circumvent the problems that Haas mills have. If memory serves, the mini mill series have the little 7.5 HP motor, while the DM series has twice that? I may be incorrect on this.

Apologies for the rambling! Summary: I would not consider the DT solely based on the different taper. Between SMM2 and DM1, if they come out to similar price points (even if, say, the SMM2 is even a few grand lower) - I would get the DM. The side mount tool changer is a big bonus, in my point of view, and worth the difference.

MaletaBG · Jun 26, 2017

Thanks everyone. Still haven't decided. I am trying to find some of these machines nearby, to check it out. In the meantime, I got a quotation for Robodrill D21MiB5, with 24RPM BT30 spindle and probing system - 117.000 EUR. -.- Almost double the price of DT-1 with Renishaw and few more extras... I am in Serbia, Europe, btw...

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Lazyman · Jul 3, 2017

I use Solidworks + HSMXPress for CAD/CAM, so I guess I won't need High speed machining option from Haas as I can generate HSM toolpaths from HSMXpress? Is that correct?

If you are buying the machine with a promotional discount, get the HSM option. If not you can just buy it later and use their free 200 hour trial first because it's just a code you will put in the control. HSM tool paths will be limited in speed significantly without the option enabled from my experience with adaptive tool paths in fusion 360. It's my little pet peeve honestly and I been mentioning it every chance I get here. Performance without out it is just plain junk. I have a VF 2SSYT, If I were in your situation I would pick the DM-1.If your only buying one machine and you have an established product line the money you "save" upfront with the mini wont feel all that great when reality sets in. You could cut feed time with small tooling by 33% right off the bat with the 15k spindle in aluminum. If you upgrade the mini spindle for $8k the price gap gets closer and then whats the point in getting it really? The mini has an annoying umbrella tool changer too and the DM-1 has a slick servo driven side mount with lightning quick tool changes.

DavidScott · Jul 3, 2017

For the work you are describing I would go with a BT30 spindle. There is nothing wrong with BT30 unless you really just need a 40 taper for 3/4" or larger mills.

prime_mover · Jul 3, 2017

The mini-mill's have a built in coolant tank. This is a huge pain in the ass to clean. If you machine mixed media like copper and aluminum, and you neglect the tank.... you are in for even more trouble.

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DT-1, DM-1 or Super Minimill 2

MaletaBG

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MaletaBG

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Hot Rolled

nofxz

Aluminum

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Job Shopper TN

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