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Feedback on Haas DS-30Y / ST-30Y lathes

Kapster

Cast Iron
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Location
Ohio, USA
Looking at purchasing a turning center at work. For sure want Y axis live tooling and most likely a sub spindle. We’re a job shop in a company with normally low quantity parts but almost always have hole features and second opp lathe work. Material would be mostly steel but anything from plastic to A-2 is normal. We have a Prototrak lathe and it has its place but its time to move to the next level.

For those that own or have run one, whats your thoughts? How is accuracy and repeatability? How is the sub spindle, rigidity and power? The new BMT-65 turret sounds promising, anyone have their hands on one yet?

I setup a 2014 ST-30 at a place I was moonlight for awhile but never very critical parts and not in steel so didn’t get a feel for its accuracy capability. It had also been crashed and realigned. After that a slug of material was in the bar puller and wacked the collet chuck. The probe didn’t read right after that so guessing it was misaligned again. Doesn’t seem like it takes much but i wasn’t there for either wreck. Any feedback on this? The apps guy told me they don’t pin anything so in a wreck they move instead of breaking something?

I kicked around going with a Samsung or something like it but after looking at a friends I’m not sure I can get around that Fanuc control. Ive never ran a fanuc but after having haas it looks pretty rough.




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Take a look at a Doosan. Ellison has some darn nice pricing right now on the Lynx machines(or at least they did a month ago). I bet they would easily beat price and more importantly, performance. A Lynx LSYC was well below $150k. My memory is foggy, but they might have been closer to $125K?
 
The new Doosan lynx 2100 looks sweet, but the bmt 45 turret is kind of a let down. I didn’t realize they made them that small, thought the smallest was 55. Bummer that er32 collets would be out.

Its still Fanuc but it looks like a higher end fanuc instead of the bottom of the barrel that the samsung comes with. The Doosan add ons look very user friendly also. They just call it a Doosan Fanuc i series, would that be a 30i?


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Take a look at a Doosan. Ellison has some darn nice pricing right now on the Lynx machines(or at least they did a month ago). I bet they would easily beat price and more importantly, performance. A Lynx LSYC was well below $150k. My memory is foggy, but they might have been closer to $125K?

Pretty close. We had one quoted in sept. last year. Just under $130k for the Lynx 220LSYC.
 
The new Doosan lynx 2100 looks sweet, but the bmt 45 turret is kind of a let down. I didn’t realize they made them that small, thought the smallest was 55. Bummer that er32 collets would be out.

Its still Fanuc but it looks like a higher end fanuc instead of the bottom of the barrel that the samsung comes with. The Doosan add ons look very user friendly also. They just call it a Doosan Fanuc i series, would that be a 30i?


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Nope, that would be a Fanuc Oi-F control. I work for Doosan and can answer most of your questions. There are a lot of nice features on these controls no matter the machine, lathe or mill. Call or write if you have questions.

Paul Anderson
Applications Engineer
Doosan Machine Tools America
[email protected]
973-618-2457
 
I’am excited for you the Haas Lathe is very good, I do not care for their bar feeders at all yet they have said they have since my experience with it improved to what they have now. Yet even with the older version it was only a matter of using the larger push bar as the smaller diameter I think 1/2 inch would just hang up if not perfectlyly aligned and lubricated. You can run them slower which helped some.

I bent the rod three times and ordered a extra on the last one bent as I thought even I could not straighten that bent rod and besides with the trouble that the feeder did not like that size bar we needed a back up so no extra time spent straightening it instead of being able to completely overcome and run.

I ‘am not familiar with your specific model when you refer to sub spindle I assume you mean VDI holders. The ones I have used worked very fine indeed yet they must be programmed with the fact that a vertical mill is much stronger than VDI holders (they work great and require dead on setup and adjustment with indicator) so you just adjust your speeds , feeds, depth of cut drill peck and so on. Using a four flute endmill I believe is better for a lot of operations as four flutes mean chip thickness is better and leverages less stress on the VDI tooling. The live VDI tooling is truely a sight to behold and it will save you money while making the parts better because less setups!

The thing about live tooling is this it is is it is critical to think about how many of them you need to buy and they all require special unique collets and wrenches to tighten in your centerdrill,drill,and tap. You see you might need three just to do a tapped circular bolt op. Then you might have slots to cut you understand what I describe I am sure. My employer bought a SL 20 a fine machine and Haas are very acurite as long as you program your cuts properly and buy the right tooling all of this if not right will make you think a Lathe is not accurate when it is the experience and knowledge of the machinist.


Employers do not like to admit this because they are beholding to the trade experience you have which makes you worth more money try hard to not learn them everything you know. (Just my way do what you wish) Another very important point is the placement of your VDI tooling (all tools must clear and some times you must back off in Z to make a safe tool turrent rotation to the next tool) you must have what else is in the tool torrent clear the chuck jaws and wall of your machine such wall being right behind your chuck.

Have fun. I would not reccomend Fanuc controls unless there is a good reason why yoU need such control such as a more accurate Lathe. Depending on how much you want to spend you get what you pay for look at the manufactures specs.
 
I think vdi is only on the st10/st15, above that have moved to BMT which from my understanding is much more rigid and far less setup. I hear ya on number of milling heads, the number you need really adds up if you think about the what ifs.

The reason i was asking about accuracy, Ive seen several posts “bragging” their st lathe would hold .001 or .005 all day. Is that because thats all they require? Most of what i do isn’t super critical but I do a good amount of bearing bores and journals that you have to hold a couple .0001’s. My prototrak will do it all day long but like you said, some of its in the technique.


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Pretty close. We had one quoted in sept. last year. Just under $130k for the Lynx 220LSYC.

IIRC, they were even going to throw in a half dozen rotary tools too. Screaming deal.

I have 3 Haas machines in house, one turning center and two machining centers. They will be the last 3 Haas machines I own. They have their place. They got me to where I am now, but I have out grown them. At least when I bought them they were a good value. Cheap entry level machine at a cheap entry level price. No so any more. They are still a cheap entry level machine, but they are not cheap any longer. You can buy any number of other machine brands that are half again more machine for the same price, +/- a few bucks. The Lynx I have on the floor will run circles around my Haas lathe. Faster, more accurate, and looking how it's built, more durable. I hope to replace a mill and the lathe with Doosans on the next few years.
 
IIRC, they were even going to throw in a half dozen rotary tools too. Screaming deal.

I have 3 Haas machines in house, one turning center and two machining centers. They will be the last 3 Haas machines I own. They have their place. They got me to where I am now, but I have out grown them. At least when I bought them they were a good value. Cheap entry level machine at a cheap entry level price. No so any more. They are still a cheap entry level machine, but they are not cheap any longer. You can buy any number of other machine brands that are half again more machine for the same price, +/- a few bucks. The Lynx I have on the floor will run circles around my Haas lathe. Faster, more accurate, and looking how it's built, more durable. I hope to replace a mill and the lathe with Doosans on the next few years.

Same experience. I have 3 haas mills and an ST10Y. They have served their purpose, but we will not be going that route again. It's worth the little bit extra to go another route. I have been looking at Takisawa for our next turning center.
 
Met with Ellison salesman today about a Doosan, awaiting pricing but sounds like what you guys said. Kind of a bummer, sounds like the new 2100 isn't available in y axis which seems odd to me. Maybe just the US market?

Is the Lynx 220 a comparison to a DS30 though? It would probably be big enough for my needs but can it be as rigid as a larger haas? BMT 45 on the Doosan vs BMT 65 on the haas. The Doosan 220 lsyc is 8800 lbs, DS30y is 16000 lbs.
 
I can't help you out now, but, we have a DS30Y on order. If you go with a Haas, currently expect a long lead time - we ordered at the end of December, and it will be in May when it is delivered.

It seems like a good machine. As far as I can tell, Haas machines have just gotten better and better over the years... they do have competition though, so be sure to weigh your options.
 
I can't help you out now, but, we have a DS30Y on order. If you go with a Haas, currently expect a long lead time - we ordered at the end of December, and it will be in May when it is delivered.

It seems like a good machine. As far as I can tell, Haas machines have just gotten better and better over the years... they do have competition though, so be sure to weigh your options.

Congrats! Keep me posted, it would be after may till we order something. Do you know if it'll have the next gen control? Thats a crazy long lead time for Haas. I heard theyre busy, that they shipped 1700 machines in January. Ellison salesman told me Doosan does 1000 a month, in comparison.

I gotta say I'm really leaning towards just getting a haas. Honestly we don't need anything super beefy, but we need something thats nice to run and familiar. If I needed one for mass production, something else might make sense. For low quantity job shop use thats already invested in Haas, might be good enough.
 
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Something important to note is the ds30 doesn't have a full c axis on the sub spindle. I have a Doosan lynx 220lsyc, I have no problem holding .0002 as long as I keep an eye on it. I run my lynx hard, and even though the Haas is a larger machine the lynx will run circles around it.
 
Something important to note is the ds30 doesn't have a full c axis on the sub spindle. I have a Doosan lynx 220lsyc, I have no problem holding .0002 as long as I keep an eye on it. I run my lynx hard, and even though the Haas is a larger machine the lynx will run circles around it.

I wish they made a longer version of the lynx, they do make one in the puma. The lynx would be long enough for most of what we do, just thinking it would get tight on deep drilling. We send a decent amount of stuff out for gun drilling, hoping we can do some of it in house.

How do you like the bmt45 live tooling? Any experience with bmt55 or 65 to compare to? Seems to be limited on tool size, er20 collet if I remember right?

Thanks for the info on the c axis. You say it doesnt have a full c axis on the sub, does it have anything for indexing?
 
I love my lynx, it's a great machine for it's size. I don't really run into rigity issues with the bmt45. You can. Get er25 holders from most MFG for the live tools. I will say the sub doesn't have much hp so harder msterials can be a little challenging trying not to overload the spindle but still break chips.

Don't have much to directly compare it to, but I guess we will see how the turrret on the okuma compares to the bmt45 when my Genos l3000 shows up next week.

The DS only has 1* indexing on the sub which for me would be worthless. If I was looking for a machine of that size the pump 2600sy would be what I would strongly look at. Not much more money but a hell of alot more machine.
 
I can't help you out now, but, we have a DS30Y on order. If you go with a Haas, currently expect a long lead time - we ordered at the end of December, and it will be in May when it is delivered.

It seems like a good machine. As far as I can tell, Haas machines have just gotten better and better over the years... they do have competition though, so be sure to weigh your options.

Has your DS30Y showed up yet? Thoughts so far?

Our project got approved to move forward, waiting on the salesman to schedule shop visits to see machines. I have my list narrowed down to the Haas DS30Y, Doosan Puma 2600SY, or DMG Mori NLX-2500SY-700. Both the Doosan and Mori have about 32" of Z instead of 23" on Haas for a little more clearance between chucks.

Mori is a decent bit more money but I like the built in motor turret, the live tool motor sits in the center of the turret and drives the tool holders directly instead of a gearbox there. Also gets you 10,000 rpm live tooling instead of 6000 on Haas and 5000 on Doosan. The control also looks nicer to use then the Fanuc but haven't seen one in person yet to say for sure.
 
I just got brand new Lynx 2100MA and let me tell you Fanuc user interface is pure junk. Compared to Haas next-gen its a stone age stuff. Horrible. You jog machine to soft limits it alarms out. You have to reset. In 2018!

To load program from USB stick, you need a manual. Installer was not able to load program from my USB stick, I am not kidding. This is what you need to do to load something from USB: LOAD A CNC PROGRAM USING A USB DRIVE - YouTube and read comments on that video...

And don't get me started on manual. Its worse than useless, translated by non-native speaker, most of it makes no sense. I pickup Haas manual and can find anything that I need to do and its clear what I need to do and it works. Not case here.

The Doosan Easy Operation Package is an oxymoron, neither me nor installer could get stuff to work from there.

This is software on 1980's level.

I can live with fact that user interface is complicated and convoluted as long as there is a manual which I can refer to so I can find out how to do something. There is no manual.

Operation Manual for the machine has no information on how to set work-offsets!!!!
 
I just got brand new Lynx 2100MA and let me tell you Fanuc user interface is pure junk. Compared to Haas next-gen its a stone age stuff. Horrible. You jog machine to soft limits it alarms out. You have to reset. In 2018!

To load program from USB stick, you need a manual. Installer was not able to load program from my USB stick, I am not kidding. This is what you need to do to load something from USB: LOAD A CNC PROGRAM USING A USB DRIVE - YouTube and read comments on that video...

And don't get me started on manual. Its worse than useless, translated by non-native speaker, most of it makes no sense. I pickup Haas manual and can find anything that I need to do and its clear what I need to do and it works. Not case here.

The Doosan Easy Operation Package is an oxymoron, neither me nor installer could get stuff to work from there.

This is software on 1980's level.

I can live with fact that user interface is complicated and convoluted as long as there is a manual which I can refer to so I can find out how to do something. There is no manual.

Operation Manual for the machine has no information on how to set work-offsets!!!!

I was afraid of that, I was hoping the Doosan version of Fanuc was improved but doesn't sound like it. I don't get why Fanuc's are so popular, and why they haven't just made it easy to use. Like you said its been like this since the 80's.
 
Just watched the U-Tube video...time to go outside and give my Haas machines a big kiss.

That said...eventually I'm sure you can learn the control...but you'll have a tough time making a Haas machine rigid and powerful.

I have been a Haas fan, got a bunch on the floor running day in and day out...but in all honesty I think they are an Ok bang for your buck in basic form...
-Add accessories and these machine creep into better machine realms.
-Hanging live tooling way off a mediocre rigid turret, add a lesser sub spindle...


For me to spend that kind of coin I'd need to see each of my narrowed choices run the same part.


To help narrow your choices...keep in mind service, parts and tech support. Can be invaluable...best machine money can buy that's not running for whatever reason can't keep up with a running machine making good parts.
 
That said...eventually I'm sure you can learn the control...but you'll have a tough time making a Haas machine rigid and powerful.

Absolutely true. Reason for my complaining, and I will continue to loudly complain to my dealer and Doosan, is that if we as customers keep on taking it and not demand the change nothing will ever change.
 








 
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