First CNC purchase advice

I am purchacing my first CNN for my shop, this will be my "intro to CNC", I am buying a new VF2. I am looking for any specific info that as a CNC newbie I probably don't know and should know. Basic any experience advice is more than welcome. I have gotten a small group of assorted tooling, 22 various holders, collet etc. I have also gotten my CAM software secured, I will be using FeatureCAM/FeatureMILL 3 HMS. I am working on getting my 3 phase power connected in my shop, previously I have run my older manual machines off of VFD phase converters.

Any advice will be very much appreciated! Advice on things to watch for that may be either un-thought of or just unexpected cost, needs, wants etc....

Thanks in advance!,
Joe

Watch all the Haas videos on maintenance.

Things you will need..
- tool offset gauge
- tool storage rack
- tool changing fixture
- clean buckets to mix coolant
- easy access to water
- 1 gallon measuring container
- refractometer
- time
- patiance

Depending on your budget, here's a few options that you should consider.

On a VF2, if you go with the extended Y, you can get the 41 side mount ATC. MY advice would be to stay away from the umbrella style tool changer.

If your looking at a higher end cam, like feature cam, you're going to want the HSM and extended memory option.

Spring for the Probe. You'll never regret it.

Dang it Larry. You're right. We just got a new VF2-SSYT last December, but with the 24 tool SMTC... Salesman says "oh the 40 isn't available for this one". Looks like it actually is per the build-a-quote on their website. Bummer. (or maybe it's changed since? I don't remember build-a-quote from last time)

I think Larry and BGL made some good points, Joe. Definitely get the probe now. Larry is correct.

If you plan to go with a YT model, definitely consider the 40-tool changer as well as some of the other hardware upgrades. Things that you can't add on later once you already have the machine. You might wish you had them later. Software is easy, you can just purchase the option and type in a code to unlock it. (some of the software options you can try for 200 hours, too)

I'd also add at least P-Cool and either the 12k or 15k rpm spindle.

Avrgjoe - you don't say what background you come from (I went from operating system software to CNC directly, don't use manual mills at all) Let's assume you understand machining well enough to start, and focus on "what's different in CNC?"

1. You will generally want all of the tools for the task set in holders, with their length offsets in the machine controller, before the job. So while on say a bridgeport you might set Z height for each tool as you are about to use it, on a VMC you'll them all done in advance.

2. There are at least 4 different ways to set tool length offsets, one of which is with a probe wired to the controller (this is NOT the part probe others above tell you ought to buy, it is a second probe just for tool height offsets.) Think about that option. Or doing it by hand. Or one of the little tool height setter gizmos. Or a fixture with a height gauge. Or an actual fancy tool presetter. Or...

3. You will want lots of tool holders in either typical sizes or some collet scheme like ER-20 (say) because every tool gets preset.

4. You will need SOME kind of vise to tighten pull studs with.

5. You will need the right wrenches for pull studs, collets, etc. I'm sure you just laughed. It won't be funny when day-1 you get nothing done because you don't have the weird socket needed to tighten the pull-stud into the holder. It is NOT a socket you can buy at the hardware store.

6. OK, you have lots of holders with the right tools but they don't all fit in the machine at once, where do you store them?

A good vise along with studs/nut set, parallels...
A good indicator, edge finder are your most basics.

Basic endmill holders, a collet set with an extra holder or two...ER-32 covers a nice range. Drill chuck or chucks...

As to tooling, holders and the like...my advise get a few of what you know you will need, don't go too crazy right off the bat.

I say this as...no matter what, you will not have what you need soon as you get started...just the way it is. Whatever you bought knowing you will need, you may never use...also the way it is. Buy a 3" face mill and you will need a 4", buy a 2" facemill and first job you run will need a smaller 1-1/2" to clear obstructions. Buy a bunch of 1/2" carbide EM's with 1" DOC and you'll need 1-1/8" DOC.

MSC and other distributes that can get you what you want the next day at no extra charge, other then high prices are your friend.

Do setups later in the day, see what you need and can't wait for then place your MSC order and see it the next day. Yes you'll pay more for the stuff, but its better then buying a bunch of stuff you don't need at a good price...so it evens out.

Stuff you can wait for put on a list and order thru your local guy or wherever at better pricing.


If you haven't run a CNC before...-
-play with it the only way it will not crash to get used to rapids and jogging....that is no holders in spindle, nothing on the table.
-toss a pencil or something in shallow holder and play with that...watch the code, understand its moves BEFORE it Makes them...not after. Some like "distance to go" I prefer the work offset.
-Slow jogs speeds...run tools above workpiece with your workshift, use simulation. It does not take long before you know whats happening as code is spit out.

learn how to hand code then look at getting into cadcam . without being able to read the code and just dumping it into the machine with blind faith is a big NO-NO in my book...

im just gonna chime in for a second.... i did not know you could get 40 tool atc on a vf2. that is amazing. might have to be my next one.

id say must haves for a vf2 would be chip auger, probe, and 4th axis. but that totally depends on your parts.

side mount tool changer all the way, umbrella is for tractor repair shops

Hand code, yea that will put you to sleep quick.. when you can read a punch tape you know you have mastered it.

It is certainly worth working with the control to get your brain warped around the concepts and memorizing commands.

Go to the Haas website and download their programming workbook - best I have ever used.

BGL said:

Watch all the Haas videos on maintenance.

Things you will need..
- tool offset gauge
- tool storage rack
- tool changing fixture
- clean buckets to mix coolant
- easy access to water
- 1 gallon measuring container
- refractometer
- time
- patiance

Click to expand...

Thank, this is perfect. Good recommendations, thanks very much for your reply!

Larry Dickman said:

Depending on your budget, here's a few options that you should consider.

On a VF2, if you go with the extended Y, you can get the 41 side mount ATC. MY advice would be to stay away from the umbrella style tool changer.

If your looking at a higher end cam, like feature cam, you're going to want the HSM and extended memory option.

Spring for the Probe. You'll never regret it.

Click to expand...

My budget is pretty limited, I did however opt for the Sidea mount too changer. Also, I am using the FeatureMILL HS. ..... what is the extended memory you are talking about? As I have gone thru all the literature, I don't remember seeing anything about that? The probe is definitely in my future, for an extra 6k, I couldn't swing it right off though. 100% agree though, the probe is so worth it's weight in gold!

BTW, thanks?

bryan_machine said:

Avrgjoe - you don't say what background you come from........

3. You will want lots of tool holders in either typical sizes or some collet scheme like ER-20....

6. OK, you have lots of holders with the right tools but they don't all fit in the machine at once, where do you store them?

Click to expand...

My back ground is a mechanical design education, I have been running AutoCAD for about 25 years and been running my manual machine tools for about 4 years. I am a federally licensed firearms manufacture and working towards being able to actually manufacture instead of "manufacture" by assembling gun parts for resale.

I currently have about 20 +/- tool holders of assorted types and several tap holders. I did go ahead an get me a 40 piece tool cart for Cat40 tool holders. As far as the rest of the stuff you mentioned, I will definitely take the suggestions an start a list of things I need.

Thanks!

Avrgjoe said:

My budget is pretty limited, I did however opt for the Sidea mount too changer. Also, I am using the FeatureMILL HS. ..... what is the extended memory you are talking about? As I have gone thru all the literature, I don't remember seeing anything about that? The probe is definitely in my future, for an extra 6k, I couldn't swing it right off though. 100% agree though, the probe is so worth it's weight in gold!

BTW, thanks?

Click to expand...

The extended memory gives you an internal hard drive, plus you can run programs up to 16mb. I can't tell you what a thrill it is to be able to post HSM routines, and just plain not care how big the program comes out.

SIM said:

A good vise along with studs/nut set, parallels...
A good indicator, edge finder are your most basics.

Basic endmill holders, a collet set with an extra holder or two...ER-32 covers a nice range. Drill chuck or chucks...

As to tooling, holders and the like...my advise get a few of what you know you will need, don't go too crazy right off the bat

Click to expand...

I did get a good deal on 3 nice double vices, and I have quite a bit of other miscellaneous tooling from my manual machines. The tool holders I do have is exactly that, an asort mentioned of variousdiferent ones I know I can use.

A way to get a good part of integrated probe function at much less cost is with a "3D taster"
Haimer is one prominent brand. Figure 1/10th the cost of the renishaw option, but without the integration into the control - though sometimes the difference isn't import.
Universal 3D-Sensor for milling and eroding machines

bryan_machine said:

A way to get a good part of integrated probe function at much less cost is with a "3D taster"
Haimer is one prominent brand. Figure 1/10th the cost of the renishaw option, but without the integration into the control - though sometimes the difference isn't import.
Universal 3D-Sensor for milling and eroding machines

Click to expand...

Very nice! Thanks for that little tid bit. That is a must have I would say. This vs. the nearly $6000 Rinshaw option.... this will help tremendously.

http://www.amazon.com/Haimer-80-360-00-IN-Universal-FH-3D-Sensor-Inch-Version/dp/B007XGE2IA

Thanks!

Avrgjoe said:

Very nice! Thanks for that little tid bit. That is a must have I would say. This vs. the nearly $6000 Rinshaw option.... this will help tremendously.

http://www.amazon.com/Haimer-80-360-00-IN-Universal-FH-3D-Sensor-Inch-Version/dp/B007XGE2IA

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Also keep in mind that if you buy the Haas probe option, there are several other options that get thrown into the package, like rotation and scaling, spindle orient, and macros.

Larry Dickman said:

The extended memory gives you an internal hard drive, plus you can run programs up to 16mb. I can't tell you what a thrill it is to be able to post HSM routines, and just plain not care how big the program comes out.

Click to expand...

He can run as large a program as he likes directly off a thumb drive and not spend extra money. The only downside is not being able to edit at the control. In 9 years with my Haas, I've never once loaded a program in to memory.

Avrgjoe said:

Very nice! Thanks for that little tid bit. That is a must have I would say. This vs. the nearly $6000 Rinshaw option.... this will help tremendously.

http://www.amazon.com/Haimer-80-360-00-IN-Universal-FH-3D-Sensor-Inch-Version/dp/B007XGE2IA

Thanks!

Click to expand...

If you are an engineer, get the probe. You will find several other ways to use it other than just setting up work coordinates. In 2-5 years your $6K investment will easily be paid for in time saved.

Tim

Probe! I think renshaw make it so you can pay about 2/3k and have unlimited use now with all features and attachments.