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Thread: Ground Fault detected

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    ARB's Avatar
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    Default Ground Fault detected

    So the old girl had a hissy fit today.
    1994 VF3
    I got a shuttle out of position alarm.

    I started messing around with the usual things. Swapped relays and no dice. I did some other poking around and decided that maybe I had low voltage to the motor.

    I checked a couple things and buttoned things up and then noticed a popped fuse at the top of the board where the relays are located.

    Hmmm.

    I put in a new fuse and fired up the machine and everything was cool. Did a tool change. Cool.

    Power up restart and poop.
    Stuck turret again.

    I pulled the shuttle motor and set it up on top of the machine. And powered up the motor to see that it would work with no load. It did once. The second time I got a ground fault alarm and can't get rid of it.

    Any ideas at all??

    I farted with it for a few hours and had to run.

    Maybe tomorrow will bring success.


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    Any ideas at all? Could this be fault on the input/output assembly? I suspect I may have low output voltage to the tc motors.

    Right now I can't get by 175 ground fault detected.

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    Ok. I found an unhappy component. This is on the I/O board. Can anyone ID it. We have a pretty big kit at work. If I'm lucky we will have one of these critters.

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    Don't you have a nother board just like it to cheat off of?


    I farted with it for a few hours and had to run.
    After a few hours of that - not surprising that you ended up with the runs.



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    Yup. I'm gonna peek at the one at work today. We have a big kit with all sorts if Zisters in it. I'm hoping we can find one to work.


    Thanks for the wake up call

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    Pipes is offline Cast Iron
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    Default Resistor is a symptom not a cause

    Arb,

    It is unlikely that the resistor failed in that manner on it's own. It is most likley a symptom of another problem such as a shorted transistor or diode or a breakdown in the motor itself.

    The motors for the tool shuttle and tool carousel are probably DC brush, if they are check the condition of the brushes and carbon build up. If you have access to a megohm meter a meg test will tell you a lot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pipes View Post
    Arb,

    It is unlikely that the resistor failed in that manner on it's own. It is most likley a symptom of another problem such as a shorted transistor or diode or a breakdown in the motor itself.

    The motors for the tool shuttle and tool carousel are probably DC brush, if they are check the condition of the brushes and carbon build up. If you have access to a megohm meter a meg test will tell you a lot.
    Thanks
    It is a 90VDC motor. I did pull the brushes. They look to have a good 1/2" of material left on them and look to be in decent condition. I did wipe some build up off the sides of them before I put them back in. The failed resistor came after this maneuver. Likely I caused some problem????? I think we have Megger here at work. I will see.

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    haastec is offline Cast Iron
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pipes View Post
    Arb,

    It is unlikely that the resistor failed in that manner on it's own. It is most likley a symptom of another problem such as a shorted transistor or diode or a breakdown in the motor itself.

    The motors for the tool shuttle and tool carousel are probably DC brush, if they are check the condition of the brushes and carbon build up. If you have access to a megohm meter a meg test will tell you a lot.
    I highly doubt that cleaning the brushes caused your problem, but rather what Pipes suggested about another failed component. That may be tougher to track down.

    I have read a few times about repair services for these boards. You may want to search some but hopefully others may chime in with more direct information about services.

    Good luck!

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    If it is likely that I have a problem on the I/O board then I will just get one.

    Is this where the 90VDC is formed?
    When I measured the voltage at the connector to the motor I was only seeing 36V from pin to pin.

    Sounds like I should get a new board on the way.

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    Well it looks like the prudent thing is to order a new IO board. So one will be here Monday.

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    steve10778 is offline Aluminum
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    Default check the motor again

    arb,
    we had a problem on our vf2,,, took the carousel motor out, took it apart, and washed all of the carbon dust off. We could see from A1 and A2 to ground was a low resistance. not a short just low. we disassembled the motor and washed the housing, brushgear, and case clean. put back together and resistance was very high to ground, which is what you want. its possible that is your problem, so take the connector apart at the motor and measure from each armature lead to the case of the motor or clean ground, you should be above 90k ohms at a minimum. fix your old board , probably just zapped the blocking diode.

    and as a side note, i tracked down some brushes at one time, to no avail, there was some ridiculous minimum quantity to buy the brushes, would have been cheaper to just buy a new motor from haas ;(

    let us know what you figure out, i always like to know.

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    Thanks for the testing notes. I will do that tonight.
    I ordered a new IO board and got the wrong one. Very rare from Haas to get the wrong part. But my machine turns out to be one of 100 that were different.

    I could probably fix the board but I don't have much experience and need to be running.

    I will pull the motor again and clean the hell out of it.


    Thanks

    Adam

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    All better now!!

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    One little oddity here. My chip auger does not work. Yes, it is plugged in to the new board.

    When the auger button is pushed I see the LED light up for the 5th axis brake. Uh. I don't have no stinking 5th.


    In the special instructions there is reference to Version G. What the foof is version G and where do I find out what version I have.


    Any hints from some of the Haas Experts?


    Thanks
    Adam

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    Quote Originally Posted by ARB View Post
    One little oddity here. My chip auger does not work. Yes, it is plugged in to the new board.

    When the auger button is pushed I see the LED light up for the 5th axis brake. Uh. I don't have no stinking 5th.


    In the special instructions there is reference to Version G. What the foof is version G and where do I find out what version I have.


    Any hints from some of the Haas Experts?


    Thanks
    Adam
    Go to diagnostics page and find the bit for chip auger (right 2 columns some where). Check to see if the diagnostic bit toggles between 1 and 0. Then double check the plug at the I/0 for power when it shows a 1.

    If no power when it shows a 1, call your dealer and explain what it is doing and have them double check the part number. If there is power, then keep going down the line to the pump.

    Not sure how your dealer is, but just in case, be prepared to defend your installation procedure. Properly grounded, everything installed correctly (you did double check, right? ), blah, blah, blah.


    Good luck!

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    That was weird

    Since the 5th brake relay comes on when I hit the chip auger button I figured what the heck. I put m13 in mdi and the auger came on in reverse. Ha.... Reverse does not surprise me as it has been backwards since I have owned it.

    The odd thing is that I had to cut machine power to get it to stop.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ARB View Post
    That was weird

    Since the 5th brake relay comes on when I hit the chip auger button I figured what the heck. I put m13 in mdi and the auger came on in reverse. Ha.... Reverse does not surprise me as it has been backwards since I have owned it.

    The odd thing is that I had to cut machine power to get it to stop.

    There is a parameter bit to reverse the chip auger. Par 209 bit 12 (REV CONVEOR)

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    Quote Originally Posted by haastec View Post
    There is a parameter bit to reverse the chip auger. Par 209 bit 12 (REV CONVEOR)
    Well, how is your Haas running nowadays?
    It's obviously a cross-connection bw the chip auger and the fifth axes.
    The reason for this must be possible to trace if U haven't done it already?

    Greetings & btw: HappyNewYear!

    / Roger

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    Unfortunately I am still running this with the 5th axis controls.
    I have a little MDI program that I run in single block to use the auger. Not ideal but I have not really had the time to deal with it. I use this machine for tooling type work so having the auger a little less than handy is not a giant issue.

    I would like to sort it out at some point though.

    Oddly changing 209 bit 12 did nothing. I ended up swapping wires.

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    SHS
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARB View Post
    One little oddity here. My chip auger does not work. Yes, it is plugged in to the new board.

    When the auger button is pushed I see the LED light up for the 5th axis brake. Uh. I don't have no stinking 5th.


    In the special instructions there is reference to Version G. What the foof is version G and where do I find out what version I have.


    Any hints from some of the Haas Experts?

    Thanks
    Adam

    Hello ARB,

    Your 1994 VF had an old style i/o pcb. The chip conveyor cable 160 was connected to the p31.

    On new style i/o pcb the P31 is for the 5.axis brake (cable 240).
    Have a look to the chip conveyor cable 160 and remove this cable from the p31. Connect the cable 160 to the connector for the cable 160. Im not sure, but i think its the p39 on your new i/o pcb.
    The number of the cable is writen below the connector.
    Hope this help you.

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