HAAS has locked my mill

Hi
Wondering if any one can comment on my experience with Haas

I am new to CNC, have only used manual small machines in the past and had the opportunity to buy a near new Office mill OM2A.

I contacted Haas and got them to inspect the mill and all was 100% had done only 180 hours. Got HAAS to get the machine packed and transported to Melbourne. The transport was subcontracted and the mill was not lifted off its casters. The mill moved on the truck and resulted in major damage to the control panel as well as dents etc.

Haas has fixed the control panel , not the dents. While this was all going on their accounts department wanted me to pay 80% of the costs before they had even got the machine delived, set up and tested.

I do not think that i am unreasonable but paid 50% and informed the accounts that they had not completed the job.

The mill was finally delivered , leveled ( i had to redo it) and a quick demo given.
The next day i wanted to check the mill carefully prior to paying the final invoice and also check all the work was done properly.

Could i run the machine NO. an error message came up ( error 144) i rang Haas and they informed me that untill i pay the final amount the machine will not run as they will need to give me a code.

Angry they do not even own the machine was purchased through a third party and they have locked me out of my own machine .

Any comments???

Hard to remember now but i think its the standard 200 hrs then it locks up till code is given so was from the the first install that it didnt get activated so might be just a accounts slip up or didnt understand the situation ( or just maybe being plain awkward )

Good luck ,hope it gets sorted quickly!

Cheers Kev

This is totally out of my depth but a few thought popped in to that void that keeps my ears the correct distance from each other. Maybe the orginal owner owes money to Haas, result of damage, or as previously mentioned a paper work snafu. Good luck I hope you get it sorted ASAP.

I have always been treated fairly by Haas...not to say that cannot change tomorrow.


I am thinking you need to find out what balance Haas is referring to.

Is it for the original machine purchase...is it possible you bought a machine with a lien against it??

Is the balance due for work Haas performed? I haven't heard of a service time lockout. But it would be understandable if they did have one.



From Haas's point of view they have little leverage for getting paid once the machine is on your floor and they are out the door.


Another point for Haas...You said "The Machine" was checked out and Running at your place, this was done by a Haas Tech. I understand you wish to further Test/Inspect Machine. But what if you inadvertently crash machine and then decided you no longer wish to keep or pay for it...What leg does Haas have in getting paid...no money and no machine.

I'm thinking your time to check the machine was when the tech was there.

If balance is from original purchase...I don't see Haas caring who you bought machine from or for what amount...they will just be looking for there money.

Then again...could just be a paperwork Snaf-fu...hoping this is th ecase...

Good luck and let us know what happens.

What does your contract with them say ?

When you mention Haas, are you talking about their home office in Oxnard, California, USA? Or are you talking about your local HFO?

I´m not a lawyer. Either are you. Therfore, with a lot of money at stake and with the prospect of downtime of a new machine plus the service you experienced so far, I would go and talk to one instantly.
The 100 quid it will cost you may be well spent. I have no idea how it is in Australia but over here, when someone starts an illegal action (and the manipulation of a sold article may be one) and you have to get a lawyer to counter it, he pays the costs in the end.

Keep calm and carry on.
Johann

A question first.
Did you buy the machine THROUGH the Haas HFO or was it a private transaction with Haas being involved only as a third party service organization?
The only thing I can tell you is that the 200 hour timer is for Haas - corporate protection, not the HFO as far as I understand it.
What that means is if you buy the equipment 100% paid ( cash or use your own financing ), you're obligated to pay for the machine in full within 30 days of purchase. That is money goes to the HFO, who then sends it to Haas-corporate. Corporate in turn releases the final unlock code to the HFO who is then obligated to release it to you. Permanently and irrevocably.
If however you finance the equipment through Haas - corporate, then you get a temporary extention code good for 200 hours, provided your last payment due was received and processed.
I don't believe the HFO has any control over that.

So it largely depends on how the purchase was conducted. If you bought the machine from an end user direct, AND that user financed it through Haas, AND that user was in default of payments, then I can see you have some legal problems at hand which will likely involve some attorney intervention. Your beef won't be with Haas, rather the seller of the equipment.

But that is just my thinking. I have financed two of my machines through my own sources and one of them through the local HFO's financing arm. In all three cases Haas - corporate has received payment in full within 30 days and I had the permanent unlock code in my hand.
I have never used Haas's direct financing program, which at least in the US is separate and treated differently than using the HFO or your own.

cant you back date the C-mos on Haas?

If I understand correctly, the machine got damaged during the move. Haas wanted you to pay 80% of the cost to repair.

You paid 50% of it thinking that is fair enough because they hadn't even delivered it to you yet.

They delivered it, semi-leveled it, and proved it ran.

You went out, leveled it correctly, and wanted to play with it to make sure it worked (without the technician breathing down your neck).

It doesn't work because it is locked out until they get their money.

Haas does this because so many people have ripped them off in the past.

It is a shame, too. But, because of this you have to play the game and pay to get to use it.

Then if it doesn't, have them come back out and repair/adjust it.

JAckal

This sounds like the story where the mason mortars a piece of plate glass
across the top of the smoke shelf in a brand new chimney....

sounds like a crappy crating job on their end, but I didn't think they offered that service anyhow?

needs more details to this story...

Office Mill

To expand on the story

Mill bought from third party who owned it 100%
Haas Local looked at machine and gave the thumbs up ( done 180 hours)
Haas contracted to relocate the machine only and set up in my shop.
Haas local has no claim on the mill at all - i paid cash for it
Mill got damaged while in Haas care
Haas initially made statemenst all panels to be replaced new contol panek etc etc
Tech made the statement if we only replace bits in 6 mths more could go wrong, so lets do it right.
Haas local could not get transport company to pay so had to go through their own insurance. The feeling i had was panic at Haas as they wanted me to find the document that gave them the go ahead with the job
This is when i started to get worried- The approach to the repairs was done not as per original discussions
All payments made promtly by myself and had to get them to redo invoice as they over charged.
Told accounts that i would pay only up to 50% as not all work done - machine not complete etc. Asked them to get back to me about outstanding work and no communications.
The build year is 2007 but machine was not used as it was the wrong machine for the job and may have a lock at 200hrs as some one may have indicated.

The machine was tested but not all the bits put back on the mill,
still have 4 axis and oil mist system to be connected.
I have not yet managed to talk to the manager at Haas and hope some common sense plays out.

If you haven't done this, I would contact the place that you bought the mill from and ask them if they ever obtained the code from Haas. If they never did, and they did in fact own the mill, I would ask them to call Haas and ask for the code.

I don't think you should assume that the original owner put the code in to prevent the mill from stopping at 200 hrs.

My first Haas was paid for up front, but I still got the message at 200 hrs and had to call Haas for the code.

The first step is simply to contact Haas and find out exactly what the problem is. No sense in speculating until the facts are in place.

Cheers--Mike

What does not make sense is why the code was not entered in the first place?
Quite possible that since it never hit 200 hours, the original owner never needed to call the HFO for it.
Now that it expired, you are on the loosing end.
But if my understanding of the unlock code is correct, then the machine is already paid for to Haas-corporate, meaning the unlock code MUST BE IN YOUR POSESSION.
Any payment disputes with the HFO and the riggers regarding the installation should have nothing to do with the unlock code.

Perhaps Ken from Haas can chime in, even if it's a PM.

Maybe they figured that anyone who worries about leveling a machine on casters is a real mark and will pay and pay?

The solution is simple...play by the same rules.

If they insist on payment for THEIR mistake to be fixed, place the remainder of money in escrow, with a password required to access funds.

They get their password when you get your code.

Perfectly legal and less extortionate than their method!

If you reload the software, it will work for another 200 hours. If you have a lot of free time, you could type in every number starting with 2 until you get the unlock code, but if you have that amount of free time, you obviously wouldnt have enough jobs waiting that could pay that bill.

If you contracted Haas to shift the machine, why did you pay for the repairs?