Haas Super Mini Mill Questions

paris_tj · Aug 12, 2016

Hello everyone,

I am about to purchase a SMM I believe and had a few questions.

I currently own a Tormach PCNC 1100 and this will be to replace it.

1. When I am running a job that spans multiple jobs I have to leave my tormach turned on as when it homes when turned back on it is not very accurate. With this SMM can it be turned off at night, and back on and be close enough to keep running my job or will my origins need to be reset?

2. I have gotten confused after lots of reading on forums, I need to buy a rotary phase converter. I am looking buying a american rotary one. The SMM says 15hp, but I read places that is is really 5hp, with peak of 15. So what size RPC do I really need. Money is tight as it is all being spent on the SMM. Would a 20hp work or do I really need the 30hp RPC?

3. Are things I should look at as I evaluate a couple of MM and SMM that are on the market?

4. Also, any reason to look at or not look at a Fadal VMC 15/15xt/20 over a SMM?

D.D.Machine · Aug 12, 2016

yes them rehome as they should ,,,, as for your tormach, home is then power it down and back up , that will make it pull into the strong pole on the stepper and not to the micro step ( old bridgeport boss trick )

yes a 20 hp rotary has more than enought to run a SMM.

If your thinking about a new haas your in for a headache, there old control is great and there new next gen is buggy as hell

I still run a VMC15 and VMC15XT about every day ,, there great little machines but I really don`t think i would buy anymore of them .

you might look at the webb 2414 mills ,, they are built by First and were sold under the Sharp name for years tell sharp made there copy of them ,, there a lot of mill for about 42K new

paris_tj · Aug 12, 2016

D.D.Machine said:
yes them rehome as they should ,,,, as for your tormach, home is then power it down and back up , that will make it pull into the strong pole on the stepper and not to the micro step ( old bridgeport boss trick )

yes a 20 hp rotary has more than enought to run a SMM.

If your thinking about a new haas your in for a headache, there old control is great and there new next gen is buggy as hell

I still run a VMC15 and VMC15XT about every day ,, there great little machines but I really don`t think i would buy anymore of them .

you might look at the webb 2414 mills ,, they are built by First and were sold under the Sharp name for years tell sharp made there copy of them ,, there a lot of mill for about 42K new

Thanks. I am actually looking used 2000-2007 area. Also looking at fadals and sharp 2412's. I see lots of fadals I am just not sure of there shape since most are older. I like there price much better, and it appears repair cost is much less.

paris_tj · Aug 12, 2016

Anyone know anything about this tooling, is it god enough to start with?

CAT4 Tooling Package Fit Haas ER32 ER16 Collet End Mill Holder Drill Chuck New | eBay

eaglemike · Aug 12, 2016

I have a (new in 2007) SMM. It's been pretty darn good. Replaced spindle drive once, tool changer motor once. They had a bad batch of tool changer motors. Use mine pretty much every day, super easy to use. WAAAAAY better than a Tormach. You can move it with a pallet jack. Pretty fast, and more than accurate for what I do. Knowing it's a fast and fairly light machine, I've run aluminum on it 99.9% of the time. If will home like it's supposed to - I don't have to reset zeroes unless something goes wrong (it's never happened, but I know it can).

The gauge length on the end mill holders looks long to me on the package posted up. The Z envelope isn't huge, and shorter is better........

Good luck with your machine.......

BTW, a standard minimill would still be a big step up over the tormach. Be sure it has rigid tapping.......

BGL · Aug 13, 2016

Have spare underwear on hand when you first run 100% rapids and 10k rpm.

eaglemike · Aug 14, 2016

What he said ^^^^^

The envelope is pretty small, compared to something with a 30" X travel. The fast rapids and tool changes will make things pretty exciting if you typo a bad number when manually editing. I usually proof toggling between 5% and 25%, still keeping a finger close to feed hold button.

Good luck!

SIM · Aug 15, 2016

You home your Haas at startup and will be right on the money where you left it the day before.

Mini Mill is a real CNC...not a hobby machine. You'll like it if coming from Tormach...

Biggest drawback of the mini is the travel...I could live with the X and Y...but Z has been the killer for me. Yes they have an option for that...but then am into VF-1 price range...and that has more X&Z...couple more tools, some extra HP and I have always made the leap to VF's.

Good quality of mini which I am starting to look at more and more...small footprint, fast as it is compact and burns less electric....the last is more of a personal rationalization.

BGL · Aug 15, 2016

to add to SIMs comment on travel, invest in short ER 16 or 20 collets to maximise distance above table and edit your post so that the table goes far to the right before a tool change and up in the Z axis after tool change to stay clear of your part. The little bit of time this extra motion takes is worth it, once your confident then you can change the motions for max speed if desired.
Good luck.

Jay Fleming · Aug 16, 2016

First, don't buy the tool set posted. You can buy the same thing direct from China for less. Invest in quality tools, such as Maritool. Cat40 collet chucks are in the $100 range and made in the US.

How much floor space do you have? What is your budget if you don't mind saying? Are you willing to have a machine shipped or looking local? There is a VF1 in Noble, OK (OKC Craigslist) for $17000. I've met the guy and the machine is pretty nice. Otherwise, there is a timed online auction that ends August 23 in Lyons, KS, that has a Fadal VMC15. The starting bid is $3000 IIRC, but I doubt it will get any bids.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

nofxz · Aug 16, 2016

Pretty sure the mini mill comes in a single phase 220 variant. I was wrong...

BGL · Aug 16, 2016

x2 on the Maritool their standards are excellent and in quantitative units not "Decent quality at reasonable prices" whatever that means?

bohemr13 · Aug 18, 2016

paris_tj said:
Anyone know anything about this tooling, is it god enough to start with?

CAT4 Tooling Package Fit Haas ER32 ER16 Collet End Mill Holder Drill Chuck New | eBay

I have a 2002 MM and that is only a 6k spindle. These tooling packages that are on Ebay make me worry. I also have a Haas TL1 lathe and I used a lot of Shars tooling for the lathe when I tooled it. I tooled the whole lathe for about $2.5k with a Dorian Quadra tool post (that's another overpriced hunk of junk).

With the Shars lathe holders in front of my I decided to look at the milling stuff when I got the Minimill. I elected to get these packages, and if you sign up you can get a 10% off the first order. I sprung the extra $8/holder to get the G2.5 20krpm rated ones. I did buy a couple of the unrated ones just for holding my touch-off pin as it's never going to get any spindle time. The G2.5 balanced stuff was very nice, I now have some MariTool and a pair of Schunk Tendo. I can't tell the difference in this old MM spindle. Perhaps if I was running a new Okuma or Makino or something "serious" I'd be able to tell but not for these machines.

CAT 4 ER32 3" Collet Chuck 3pc + CAT4 ER16 3" Collet Chuck 3pc - Tool Holders - Toolholding & Workholding - Products

CAT 4 ER32 3" Collet Chuck 3pc + CAT4 ER16 3" Collet Chuck 3pc - Tool Holders - Toolholding & Workholding - Products

paris_tj · Aug 29, 2016

Thanks for all the info.

As far as the tooling, I was just looking for something to get me going quick. I buy lots from maritool, but not enough cashe right now to buy a bunch, is why I was looking for a cheaper short term option.

As far the auction in Lyons, Ks I bought several things from there. Hardinge CNC lathe, bandsaw, Air Compressor, and etc. Some Dang good deals. The Fadals went for $4300 and $15k if I remember correctly.

My Budget, 20K maybe 23k.

My limiting factor is my floor, 4" fiber reinforced, no rebar. I plan on putting some 12 x 12 x 1" steel pads under the feet to help spread the load some.

I used to run a vf6 all day long, so I am partial to haas due to me knowing the control, but I am open other machines that are lighter in weight. I am pretty sure a vf-0/1 is probably more than I need to put on my floor.

riabma77 · Aug 31, 2016

Hello,

I moved from the Tormach to a MiniMill a few years ago. No comparison between both machines.

Unless you are doing high production, I will consider the Mini instead the Super. Because the short travels, everything happens really fast, and you won't have to deal with a phase converter.

As mentioned above, use tool holders with the shorter length possible. Using a low profile vise will help you also with the Z travel. Take a look to the Gerardi vises. They have worked very well for me.

Don’t cut corners with the tooling. I will recommend to buy different tool holders and collets from different brands, and evaluate them. You will find out soon what works better for your application, and the capabilities of the machine.

If you can, get the probe and tool setter. IMHO, they’re worth every single penny. If using coolant, don’t forget the cover.

About cons, I wish to have more tools in the ATC, and more access to the coolant tank. Coolant replacement is painful.

Other than that, it’s a great machine.

paris_tj · Aug 31, 2016

Thanks for the feedback.

I am also looking at some Fadals, maybe the VMC 15, what are the thoughts on those? I have seen some real nice looking ones for around 10k or so at machine dealers. Or should I stay away?

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