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Haas Tool Geometry Taper Colum

athack

Stainless
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
Location
Michigan USA
Hello,

I am trying to find more information on the taper colum of the tool offsets. Every time I adjust taper when doing a long bore the result is different. The manual doens'nt seem to address this. Please let me know the rules when adding of subracting using the taper offset.

Thanks Athack
 
Athack- I played with the taper thing when I started on the Haas lathe. It may work 100% and be as quick as hell to dial right in on the money.
But like alot of Haas "quick tricks and canned cycles"...I found them to be very counter-intuitive. For canned I have CAM, for tapers I just go in and program out the taper manually. .001 larger at Z0 to Z-2. then dead on...I program
G1 X.999 Z0
X1.000 Z-2.
Z-4.

For what it is worth, to get the Taper to work, I believe you need to be using Tool Comp G41, G42 and entering Nose radius of tool...something I rarely did on basic programs.
 
SIM,

Thank you. I wish there was some kind of guide line in tha manual. I too have just programmed the taper in and out but like the idea of just adding a variable to the offset. When I get it all figured out I'll post agian.

If anyone else has figured it out please post.
 
Seems like it would be better to correct the taper in the program like SIM said, so next time you make that part you don't have to screw with it. What is the draw to doing the same thing on the offsets page, but having to redo it the next time you run the same part?
 
Actually guys, the taper column does come in handy many times.

The problem with programming the taper out is that in some cases the taper is incosistant.
IOW as the insert wears, so will the taper amount change. You replace insert, taper will change.
Having to modify the program each time is a lot more involved than simply changing the taper offset just as any other offsets.

No, it isn't an end-all solution for everything, but for the right application, it's the cat's meow.

Now how it works is much simpler than to figure out what EXACTLY do you need to put in the field.
Basically, think of the "taper" value as you'd think of the I value in the G76 threading cycle.

In the threading cycle, the target X value is at the end of the thread, while the I defines the radial distance from the target X to the front of the thread.
So, as a result, for a tapered OD thread you program the X at the end of the thread, and since the front is smaller the I value will be negative.

Now to the taper offset, it works on pretty much the same principle, except it goes by 1" increments.
What that means is that the control considers the taper value as a diameter change for each 1" of Z travel.

So, as a result, if the diameter is smaller on the front of the part and larger on the back, then the taper value is negative.
Example.
You're turning a 1" diameter for 1" long. After the finish pass you measure 1.000 on the back of the part and .999 on the front, you would enter -.001 in the taper column.
Now if you're turning a 1" diameter for 2" long and measure 1.000 on the back and .999 on the front, you'd enter -.0005 for the taper because the difference is only .0005/inch.

Again, this isn't a solution for all taper issues because the closer you get to the chuck typically the less deflection you have so the difference isn't linear, but I have
successfully used it on many instances.
 
Seems like it would be better to correct the taper in the program like SIM said, so next time you make that part you don't have to screw with it. What is the draw to doing the same thing on the offsets page, but having to redo it the next time you run the same part?

Mat@RFR,

Thanks for the coment and normally I would agree. What we are doing is one prgram for a family of parts where the ID changes per part. we like to be aable to do a search and replace and change every isnstance of the ID.

Athack
 
Actually guys, the taper column does come in handy many times.

The problem with programming the taper out is that in some cases the taper is incosistant.
IOW as the insert wears, so will the taper amount change. You replace insert, taper will change.
Having to modify the program each time is a lot more involved than simply changing the taper offset just as any other offsets.

No, it isn't an end-all solution for everything, but for the right application, it's the cat's meow.

Now how it works is much simpler than to figure out what EXACTLY do you need to put in the field.
Basically, think of the "taper" value as you'd think of the I value in the G76 threading cycle.

In the threading cycle, the target X value is at the end of the thread, while the I defines the radial distance from the target X to the front of the thread.
So, as a result, for a tapered OD thread you program the X at the end of the thread, and since the front is smaller the I value will be negative.

Now to the taper offset, it works on pretty much the same principle, except it goes by 1" increments.
What that means is that the control considers the taper value as a diameter change for each 1" of Z travel.

So, as a result, if the diameter is smaller on the front of the part and larger on the back, then the taper value is negative.
Example.
You're turning a 1" diameter for 1" long. After the finish pass you measure 1.000 on the back of the part and .999 on the front, you would enter -.001 in the taper column.
Now if you're turning a 1" diameter for 2" long and measure 1.000 on the back and .999 on the front, you'd enter -.0005 for the taper because the difference is only .0005/inch.

Again, this isn't a solution for all taper issues because the closer you get to the chuck typically the less deflection you have so the difference isn't linear, but I have
successfully used it on many instances.

SeymourDumore,

Thank you, that is sorta what I have been discovering. was going to screw with it tonigh after hours. I didn't really think it was per inch of movemont in z but that's what it seems. So I'm good to go golf after hours instead of figuring that out. Thanks!!
 
Per inch...huh.

No wonder it never seemed to work.

Funny, its one of those things you have a problem, pickup manual read over quick, figure I got it, give a try get an unexpected funky result, read again but this time a bit more impatient...give another try then say the hell with it and Finger-Cam it into spec.

Thanks...good explanation. Have to go back and read that part of manual again.
 
Per inch...huh.

No wonder it never seemed to work.

Funny, its one of those things you have a problem, pickup manual read over quick, figure I got it, give a try get an unexpected funky result, read again but this time a bit more impatient...give another try then say the hell with it and Finger-Cam it into spec.

Thanks...good explanation. Have to go back and read that part of manual again.

SIM,

I can't find anything about it in the manual. Please let me know where it is.

Thanks Athack
 
SIM,

I can't find anything about it in the manual. Please let me know where it is.

Thanks Athack

I have never used this feature myself, but it looks as though the taper is a ratio of change in x over your programmed z length and not per inch.


Pg 79 From the manual: https://diy.haascnc.com/sites/defau...ors_Manual_96-8900_Rev_C_English_May_2015.pdf

Taper Compensation

Deflection of the part occurs if it is not supported precisely in the center, or if is
too long and unsupported. This causes the cut to be too shallow so the resultant
part is under-cut. This can apply to O.D and I.D cutting. Taper Compensation
provides the ability to compensate by adding in a calculated value to the
X movement based on the position of the Z cut. The zero point of the taper is
defined to be the 0.0 of the work-zero coordinate of Z. The taper is entered on
the tool shift page as a 5 place number and stored in an array indexed by tool,
which is called “Taper” on the Tool Shift/Geometry page. The value entered
should be the deflection in the X-axis divided by the length in the Z-axis, over
which the deflection occurs. The range of this value is between 0 and .005; this
value represents a slope.
 
Last night I could have sworn that it was specifically stated in the manual as deflection over 1" of travel.
Well it is not at all stated anywhere in eny of my manuals, but:

Pg 79 From the manual: https://diy.haascnc.com/sites/defau...ors_Manual_96-8900_Rev_C_English_May_2015.pdf

Taper Compensation

Deflection of the part occurs if it is not supported precisely in the center, or if is
too long and unsupported. This causes the cut to be too shallow so the resultant
part is under-cut. This can apply to O.D and I.D cutting. Taper Compensation
provides the ability to compensate by adding in a calculated value to the
X movement based on the position of the Z cut. The zero point of the taper is
defined to be the 0.0 of the work-zero coordinate of Z. The taper is entered on
the tool shift page as a 5 place number and stored in an array indexed by tool,
which is called “Taper” on the Tool Shift/Geometry page. The value entered
should be the deflection in the X-axis divided by the length in the Z-axis, over
which the deflection occurs. The range of this value is between 0 and .005; this
value represents a slope.

So if you take my example in the previous post, the .001" diameter difference over 2" of travel: .001 / 2 = .0005.
And I know that the sign is to be negative, so it is -.0005.
 








 
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