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Haas VF-3 vs mazak VCU vs Nexus

IntriCut

Plastic
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Considering a Haas VF-3. also in the running is a Mazak VCU 500 or NEXUS 530C-II HS

I tend to steer away from the Mazak VCU because of the stationary table and reduced rigidity in regards to the nexus or vf3 which can run a 50 taper. we will be running large drills and doing moderate/heavy milling
Fairly general machining, mostly mild steel.


It's to replace a 4020 fadal.

Thoughts?
 
Also, get the VF-4 not the VF-3 if you can at all swing it. Same weight and same footprint with 10 extra inches of X axis table.
 
I have a vf4ss and can tell you first hand that there nothing like your fadal 4020 boxway machine ... I still have two little fadal mills a 15 and 15XT mills and as for the rigidity of the vf4 is not any better than the little fadal linear mills, and for HP the fadal well out pull the Haas all day ,,, the one upside to the haas is its WAY faster at tool changing and has 12K spindle over the fadal 7500 rpm spindle but if your looking at running heavy cuts at all don`t look at haas mills ,,, I make money with my vf4ss and vf2ss running aluminum and with the older controls there nice to setup and run,, but haas rates there HP like a shop vac. both of my vf mills have spindle motors that say 7 1/2 hp right on them. and its the same motor they use in the gearbox mills ... so yes you can get more torque with the gearbox but you still only have a 7 1/2 hp driving it ,, it just turns slower.

I know nothing about the 50 taper haas machines in that if I ever did need a 50 taper haas would not be on my list.

Machineit2 is right about the vf3 and vf4 using the same sheet metal and weight ,, they just took a 40" travel table and made it 50" for about $750 a inch ... for me running all alum on the haas it made sense to spend the extra $$ for more parts on the table ...

FYI The smaller vf2 is more rigid than a vf4 mill . well both I run out of power with a small 3/8" endmill in alum the vf2 only shakes like a drunk and the vf4 shakes like a crack head.
 
FYI The smaller vf2 is more rigid than a vf4 mill . well both I run out of power with a small 3/8" endmill in alum the vf2 only shakes like a drunk and the vf4 shakes like a crack head.
hmmmmmm
You might be doing something way different than I am then. I have a VF-2(1998) and I can snap of a 3/8 em in a heartbeat. I typically run 1/2 3 fl and 1/2 3 fl roughers, and can fly without the machine shaking......... 1/2 is a good size for my work and they are still pretty cheap, vs going larger.
I will agree there are stouter machines out there, and Haas is no longer at the top of my loyalty list.
Just my experience.........
:)
 
I run the YG alu-power endmills ( great cutters ) and the haas mills at 12k and slotting at 1/2" deep start pushing the meter over 100% at about 140 IPM .... Same tool path and cutter well do 170 IMP on the Doosan at about 60% and then snap the cutter ... I can even push the 1/2" cutter tell they snap and still have power to go faster.

one trick I have found out with haas is there power curve really drops off fast as the RPM`s go up ... so on some parts I have found I can run parts faster by lowering the RPM and increasing the feed rate to try and stay in the power curve of there shop vac motor. Or i just put the parts on the doosan and program the cut how I want and not how the machine makes me !!!

If haas ever pulls there head out and starts making a heavy mill like Doosan or samsung and used there "OLD" control that works good they would have a great machine. But why make a nice heavy mill with some HP to it when you can spend your time on making a control that shows movies and talks to your cell phone ?
Amm I nuts or is the job of the machine to make "PARTS"
 
hmmmmmm
You might be doing something way different than I am then. I have a VF-2(1998) and I can snap of a 3/8 em in a heartbeat. I typically run 1/2 3 fl and 1/2 3 fl roughers, and can fly without the machine shaking......... 1/2 is a good size for my work and they are still pretty cheap, vs going larger.
I will agree there are stouter machines out there, and Haas is no longer at the top of my loyalty list.
Just my experience.........
:)

Thanks. and yeah i had a good laugh at that.

umm my 60 hp mill keeps snapping my 1/4 endmills, must not have enough POWER!!!
 
I know it's popular in some circles to bash Haas. My experience with them has been mixed, but my 1998 VF-2 has worked well, cutting Al to 17-4 H900. I think saying one can't push a 3/8 end mill is misleading. It depends more on the specific cutter, material, and programming/code. I can run a 1/2" 3fl rougher at 175 IPM (or more), 50 percent WOC and 3/4 DOC, 7500 RPM (because that's all I have). I might be able to go faster, but this is working well, no significant load on machine, and cutter seems to like it. Oh yeah, it's 6061. :)

So OP, likely you can make a decent living with any of the machines. My suggestion would be to find users in your area, and see which machine has the best support and warranty. After that, which control is easiest to use, for the person using it.
 
touche!

So 2" u-drill 3" deep.

3" face mill .250 doc

I would say that is borderline, even for a gearbox Haas machine. Make a salesman prove it will run your parts to satisfaction. HFOs do demo days and have machines they can run, I'm sure Mazak does too.
 
I have not ran, but seen the HAAS VF-3YT with 50 taper a few times.
They ran 70mm insert drills without much trouble, and also some heavy milling.
A lot beefier than the ordinary HAAS 40-tapers.

I have no idea how they compare to any Mazak.
 
A 1998 vf2 is not the same machine as a newer haas ... spindle changed, spindle drive changed , RPM changed , new castings , I don`t think there is hardly a part that they keep the same for the last 19 years ..... and from what I have seen the older Haaas machines were better in a lot of ways ..

I like how if someone compares haas to any other brand its marked as Haas Bashing !

I own a 2 year old haas and a 3 year old haas and for the most part they have lived up to what I thought they should be when I ordered them.
but if you want to call it bashing if i point out some things I like better on the doosan parked next to them feel free to.

As a small shop owner with 35+ years in the trade to me its all about what you spend and what you get ,,, Lets face it Haas is one of the cheapest priced machines on the market. Trying to say a Okuma or a Mori is a better machine at twice the price is nuts ,,, but comparing a 80K Doosan to a 80k and 90K Haas is fair game ,, there both the same price point and close to the same size machine, all are 12k spindles , 1,200 ipm rapids and arm tool changers ... to me its more how they cut that stands out between them. So please take some programs that you have ran for years on a Haas and edit them to talk fanuc and see what they can do on a Doosan in the same price point ... I did and I well not be buying any new haas mills unless they fix there control to run as nice as there old one and put a lot more power and weight in there machines ..
 
I like how if someone compares haas to any other brand its marked as Haas Bashing !
When you pretty much post the same thing over and over, and it doesn't contribute to the thread, I'd suggest it qualifies as bashing.....:)I understand and agree with your frustration with them.
At the moment, I own 5 Haas cnc machines. The newest mill is 2012. IMO support is going to vary from one HFO to another.

I'd continue to suggest to the OP that once one decides on the spec's needed, and narrows the list, support is crucial.
 
I think the first thing to consider is how you are going to program your parts.
Using HSM tool paths, IMHO it doesn't have any sense to pay more the extra rigidity. It's proved that HSM is a more efficient way to machine. A 3/4" solid carbide using HSM will remove more material than a 1" indexable end mill, in less time and cost (extended tool life).

I have a Mini-Mill (much less power than VFs mentioned above). Using a reduced shank 1/2" end mill, I have never seen the spindle load over 50% cutting aluminum.

Today, I think is more important to be focused in positional accuracy or thermal stability, rather than power and heavy castings.

Also, maybe more important that the machine by itself, is the quality of service and parts availability you are going to get. With Haas, I don't have a problem with parts. But regarding service, they aren't the best...
 
HSM is good on some parts and not on others. for most alum parts I like to keep the cutter in the cut and max the RPM and push the cutter tell is snaps then back off 20% and run the parts.

This post was started by a guy asking about "RIGIDITY" and running "LARGE DRILLS" and "MODERATE TO HEAVY MILLING" and is looking to replace a 4020 Fadal. I really don`t think he was asking about a 1998 Haas vf2 or a Haas mini-mill

I think talking about a newer Haas vf4 compared to other brands of machines in the same size range as he was asking about has a little more to do with this post that someone with a mini-mill that has never seen his spindle load over 50% on alum

Some of us need "Rigidity" and do a lot of Moderate to heavy cutting ... On a lot of days I fill a 320 gallon tote with about 1,500 lbs of chips and yes I would still love to have a cute little mini-mill to "engrave with"

As for haas parts they have been ok ,,, 6 or 7 LED light in the last 2 years were about a week out each time ( they don`t even carry light on there trucks ),,, and the two coolant filters that leaked one was about a month out and the other about a week.

As for Haas service ,,, its a crap shoot, there ok at changing lights but when it comes to fixing a screwed up nex gen control they spent "DAYS" working on it over 7 months and never got it to run how it should.

As for Doosan service I have only had a few programming questions and they were right on it with one phone call. I have no idea about parts in that "IT" showed up working and ready to run.
 
touche!

So 2" u-drill 3" deep.

3" face mill .250 doc

If that's what your planning on running day in and day out in 4140...

While I am a Haas fan, I'd say your better off looking into something more rigid with more power then Haas can provide.

Will Haas make your parts...no doubt, I do it all the time with mine. But my 1-3/8 drill only runs at less then 50% feed with power meter sitting around 100%. 3"face mill isn't taking a 1/4" cut...

For me, heavy roughing is not a large portion of my work, when I have to...its extra passes. On a 10 minute cycle for 50 pcs, saving 30 seconds on roughing is not big enough a reason to drop extra coin on a more robust brand.

Gotta weigh them options and see what fits your needs
 
hmmmmmm
You might be doing something way different than I am then. I have a VF-2(1998) and I can snap of a 3/8 em in a heartbeat. I typically run 1/2 3 fl and 1/2 3 fl roughers, and can fly without the machine shaking......... 1/2 is a good size for my work and they are still pretty cheap, vs going larger.
I will agree there are stouter machines out there, and Haas is no longer at the top of my loyalty list.
Just my experience.........
:)

LOL 1/2 end mill? Seriously can you not use a bigger endmill like a 3/4" at 10000rpm?
 








 
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