haas vf2 tool changer stuck 1992

PAMA · Jun 21, 2016

hello need help 1992 vf2 tool changer stopping at half stroke , it stops one time out of 10 I took off the small bearing driver and the tool carousel moves freely in and out and the slot on the side is in good condition no groves
it always stops pointing straight down thanks

machineit2 · Jun 21, 2016

What is pointing straight down. Probably need to clean the carbon brush dust out of the motor.

Mike

SIM · Jun 22, 2016

Clean out carbon, clean out grooves of armature.
If you notice liquid or moisture in motor. Clean best you can to get running correct. Then put motor in a HD plastic bag, secure end with electrical tape and that will stop contaminants from going in. I used to clean without bagg'en, motor would only give a few months before I was back in cleaning again.

I was told my motor was shot by a tech once I told him I saw the coolant inside. He said once you break the seal on the brush caps they leak and then motors are toast. That was way over 5 years ago...every couple years I have to remove tape, bag and clean carbon off, change brushes...but I put back in bag after its running and it's been good.
As a safeguard...I tossed a bag over the other machines carousel motors too. Figured it can't hurt.

mtlwiz · Jun 22, 2016

SIM said:
Clean out carbon, clean out grooves of armature.
If you notice liquid or moisture in motor. Clean best you can to get running correct. Then put motor in a HD plastic bag, secure end with electrical tape and that will stop contaminants from going in. I used to clean without bagg'en, motor would only give a few months before I was back in cleaning again.

I was told my motor was shot by a tech once I told him I saw the coolant inside. He said once you break the seal on the brush caps they leak and then motors are toast. That was way over 5 years ago...every couple years I have to remove tape, bag and clean carbon off, change brushes...but I put back in bag after its running and it's been good.
As a safeguard...I tossed a bag over the other machines carousel motors too. Figured it can't hurt.

also check the set screw on the unbrella arm clutch from the motor, notorius for loosening up and doing exactly what you are describing.

allenp · Jun 22, 2016

haas vf2 drum changer 2016

sometimes, not too often, maybe 2-3 times a day or less (sometimes), tool gets jammed in the middle of tool change process, while it is being pulled out of the spindle.
also, sometimes there is a loud bang when tool is being pulled out but it doesnt jam.
most of times it changes tools effortlesly and without bangs.

I've come to a conlcusion it has something to do with force of cutting, most of times the sound is present on tool change after serious roughing.

I first thought there is not enough air capacity in compressor's tank but yesterday the tool jammed when only this 1 machine worked. after roughing.
the spindle and tool adapters have been cleaned too.

PAMA · Jun 22, 2016

thanks I am taking motor off now and will clean armature any links to buy the brushes ? thanks

PAMA · Jul 5, 2016

Hello i took off the shuttle motor and cleaned it with compressed air, removed the brushes, and cleaned the armature, but when i installed the brush springs one of them sprung out and touched the housing and caused a ground fault, I hope I didn't fry the board
I checked the fuse and it is ok I tried to check the volts when I call a tool change and nothing! I am not that great at electronics so some layman help would be so appreciated Thanks Danny

Dupa3872 · Jul 5, 2016

PAMA said:
Hello i took off the shuttle motor and cleaned it with compressed air, removed the brushes, and cleaned the armature, but when i installed the brush springs one of them sprung out and touched the housing and caused a ground fault, I hope I didn't fry the board
I checked the fuse and it is ok I tried to check the volts when I call a tool change and nothing! I am not that great at electronics so some layman help would be so appreciated Thanks Danny

Danny anytime you are working on your machine doing repairs the power needs to be OFF !!! once things are moved to a position that allows you to access what you need depress E-stop and power it down. There are times you must have power but most times you don't.

Danny you could get killed poking around the wrong place with the wrong tools. It seems you are new to some of this and I admire your desire to learn and get the job done yourself but you must approach this type of work with serious caution, people at home are depending on you to come home each day...Right ! I have been doing this for over 25 years and remember the early days of my education. I lit myself up more than once and was pretty lucky on one or two occasions.

No Customer deadline or boss up your ass for a quick fix is worth losing your life over. Power it down, take your time and call for service if you hit a dead end.

Make Chips Boys !

Ron

PAMA · Jul 5, 2016

OK thanks for the safety advice,can any one give me some help on the shuttle motor control board how to check if it is sending a signal etc. maybe a relay is burnt?I have this machine in my garage up north in Campbell river BC and the haas technicians never heard of this place thanks in advance for any help with the machine

SIM · Jul 6, 2016

Oh...compressed air is not your friend when cleaning brushes. It blows carbon dust all over the the place. I like to start with a good vacuuming sucking as much dust out as possible...then vacuum on one side, compressed air on another going around all four ports.

Whats done is done...

Lets move on.
With brushes out...how does armature look? Can you see the divisions/grooves/slots between each section? Are they carbon fouled? That is have a built up, crude that shorts out the sections? I use a thin pick and gently scrape away the crude being careful not to scratch armature or the wiring at ends. Of course armature should not have a groove around or heavy wear...if so it will have to be turned. Clean it best you can. Assmeble Power up and retry. If not blow the crap out of it, turn armature a bit and try again...a little carbon dust laying in wrong spots will stop it from working and you'll get a ground fault alarm.

Still not working...Haas or have motor rebuilt.

PAMA · Jul 6, 2016

Hello sim I took apart the motor and did a thuro cleaning and turned the armature the motor looked good no oil seepage it was clean inside the top of the brushes were flush withe the top of the brass guides ,now when i try a tool change I get a shuttle in fault
and the motor does nothing I think that it is not getting a signal to move thanks Danny

haastec · Jul 7, 2016

PAMA said:
Hello sim I took apart the motor and did a thuro cleaning and turned the armature the motor looked good no oil seepage it was clean inside the top of the brushes were flush withe the top of the brass guides ,now when i try a tool change I get a shuttle in fault
and the motor does nothing I think that it is not getting a signal to move thanks Danny

Get an ohm meter and measure from each power leg to ground or the chassis of the motor. Ideally it should be an open circuit, but that is for a brand new motor. If you have anything under 1 meg ohm then I would say you need a new motor, especially after the cleaning you did.

Regarding the shuttle fault, you are getting the shuttle in fault because the motor is not triggering the switch, not because of a missing signal. You can double check to make sure the motor is getting power (115V)with a volt meter when the command for tool change is given, but the voltage will probably only be present for a second or two before it alarms.

Hope this helps.
Good luck!

magno_grail · Jul 7, 2016

You could put a lamp across the motor leads to see if there is power before the alarm occurs.
One of my servo motors had a cracked brush holder which caused the over current alarm. Carbon in the crack let enough current through to cause the alarm. A new holder was about $40, far cheaper than a rebuild ($750+) or a new motor.
If you have carbon down the armature it will cause the alarm also. I was able to wash down the armature (vertically after removing it) with automotive brake cleaner, but be careful as too much will also wash off the shellac coating on the wire. Maybe alcohol would be safer.
Between the segments of the commutator I had to use an Xacto blade to scrape out the carbon.

toolman5256 · Jul 7, 2016

Dupa3872 said:
Danny anytime you are working on your machine doing repairs the power needs to be OFF !!! once things are moved to a position that allows you to access what you need depress E-stop and power it down. There are times you must have power but most times you don't.

Danny you could get killed poking around the wrong place with the wrong tools. It seems you are new to some of this and I admire your desire to learn and get the job done yourself but you must approach this type of work with serious caution, people at home are depending on you to come home each day...Right ! I have been doing this for over 25 years and remember the early days of my education. I lit myself up more than once and was pretty lucky on one or two occasions.

No Customer deadline or boss up your ass for a quick fix is worth losing your life over. Power it down, take your time and call for service if you hit a dead end.

Make Chips Boys !

Ron

He's right, i've been doing this for almost 14 yrs now, Ive almost been killed twice. too much is riding on you,I would go a step further and say hit the disconnect not just an E stop.as far as it being ok? put it back together and try it.

BGL · Jul 8, 2016

Most problems are the cheap connector or sticky micro switches - I suspect your going half way because the return micro switch [shuttle parked] is sticking and control times out.

Go to the diagnostics page, manually move the micro switches to be sure they are working. 0=off 1=on
Clean with plastic safe contact cleaner, check continuity trace connectors to board.

Check for power at connector at tool change command, trace and check back to board if none.

Bench test the motor.

Clean motor and connectors only with plastic safe contact cleaner!

PAMA · Jul 9, 2016

Hello I checked for voltage during a tool change attempt, and there is no voltage ,and I checked the micro switches in the diagnostics page and they are working fine what happened was that after I cleaned the bodine motor I assembled it with one spring out of place and it caused a ground fault. is there a special drive board for the shuttle motor or does the i/o pcb board provide power to the shuttle motor? also I have a line on a new replacement board for this 1992 vf2 The I/O pcb part number is 93-1092B @ $1395.00 will this board install without any modifications I am attaching a picture of my old board

you help is really appreciated thanks Danny

BGL · Jul 10, 2016

All I can offer is I can buy a case quantity of the relays shown for that price.

That being said.. Is there a fuse or circuit breaker? The next in line is a relay I imagine.. I'm not near my shop and manual to check, just trace the schematic and test each part.

If you have to desolder the relays ?? you will have to remove the board - invest in a wrist strap to keep you grounded to prevent static charge from damaging. At the very least wear cotton only and keep touching the frame to keep potential low. Power off and main breaker off - goes without saying..

magno_grail · Jul 10, 2016

Much simper board than my VF-1 but maybe the same connectors. Connector 810A (at the top of the picture) is the tool changer shuttle motor output. FU5 is the fuze. Connector 80 is the 160VDC tool changer supply. 810 is the tool changer turret motor output.

haas vf2 tool changer stuck 1992

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