New Haas VF3 with 15k Spindle - Load is 12% @ 15k RPM...Is this normal?

KC130Loadie · Dec 31, 2017

My job just got a new VF3 with the 15K spindle. It is a different looking setup with the motor connected to the spindle with a "drive shaft." We had the spindle removed to convert it to a grease packed bearing system, and while running at 15k RPM, the load meter reads bewteen 10-12% Spindle Load on average, all while not doing any cutting.

It is also pretty damn loud as well. Spindle temps on the outside never go above 90*.
Our 8 10+ year old VM2 with the 12k spindle never is above 3% at max speed.

Anyone else have any experience with the 15k spindles?

DMF_TomB · Dec 31, 2017

KC130Loadie said:
My job just got a new VF3 with the 15K spindle. It is a different looking setup with the motor connected to the spindle with a "drive shaft." We had the spindle removed to convert it to a grease packed bearing system, and while running at 15k RPM, the load meter reads bewteen 10-12% Spindle Load on average, all while not doing any cutting.

It is also pretty damn loud as well. Spindle temps on the outside never go above 90*.
Our 8 10+ year old VM2 with the 12k spindle never is above 3% at max speed.

Anyone else have any experience with the 15k spindles?

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load meter can be "calibrated" to show any thing you want. every electric motor i have seen always uses 20 - 30% of starting max AMPS just idling doing not much but turning itself.
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if turning a gear box it can be using hp just turning gears. most motors lose 20-30% or are 60-80% rated hp at the tool
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just saying load meter that reads 3% somebody calibrated to read that low, most likely it was using 20% of full amps. many motors can for short periods use higher amps than recommended continuous amps

Stirling · Jan 1, 2018

I agree with the meter calibration statement.
My tm-1 was at 12% at 6000 (max) my tm-2 was at 4%
After 8 hours run time the tm-1 was around 8%.
Break in perhaps. The tm-2 was older.

At startup a motor will spike to accelerate over nameplate full load amps,
Then level out at an percentage of full load amps.
The no load amps will be the percentage of power used just to spin the motor at that rpm. Higher the rpm, the more "percentage" of the motors power needs to be supplyed to overcome rotational forces and mechanical losses (bearings, seals..)
In your case 12% actually sounds relatively low.
I do not own a high speed machine. But draw on my knowledge managing in a electric motor rebuild facility.

On another note, I thought these machines where air/oil lubed bearings, what was the motive to switching to a greased bearing?

KC130Loadie · Jan 2, 2018

Understood on the load meter being calibrated. This machine is brand new from the factory, so it is calibrated at whatever setting the Haas factory did. I also understand that startup creates more of a load than to overcome forces, etc....but the 12% load is the machine at speed...but not cutting anything. Out 10k rpm machines never go over 5%...and are quiet.

The spindle is normally air/oil lubed bearings, but we have the spindles converted to grease packed since we cut optical plastic on these machines, and dripping spindle oil is a no-go.

This is the 6th grease packed spindle we have put in service, no problems with the others so far, even though we are at wood working speeds 99% of the time. Some of the machines have been going full throttle for 8+ years. What usually kills our spindles is our external aftermarket chiller unit dies or is not turned on and we burn the spindle up. This has happened twice in 10 years I believe.

This is our 1st Haas 15k spindle. Out other 2 high speed spindles are 3rd party, and the other Haas spindles top out at 10k rpm.

SIM · Jan 3, 2018

Motor is still pulling itself and a spindle at 15k...its gonna take some juice.

Like a stationary bike with no load...go at a quick pace, I'll get tired then break into a bit of a sweat. Then again I'm breathing heavy by the time I get the bike cleared of the crap sitting and hanging off it.

AARONT · Jan 3, 2018

We have a VF2SS, VF4SS, and DT1 with 12k spindles that run at 10-12% when not cutting. All are 2014 models. They have been like this from day one.

DMF_TomB · Jan 3, 2018

KC130Loadie said:
Understood on the load meter being calibrated. This machine is brand new from the factory, so it is calibrated at whatever setting the Haas factory did. I also understand that startup creates more of a load than to overcome forces, etc....but the 12% load is the machine at speed...but not cutting anything. Out 10k rpm machines never go over 5%...and are quiet.

The spindle is normally air/oil lubed bearings, but we have the spindles converted to grease packed since we cut optical plastic on these machines, and dripping spindle oil is a no-go.

This is the 6th grease packed spindle we have put in service, no problems with the others so far, even though we are at wood working speeds 99% of the time. Some of the machines have been going full throttle for 8+ years. What usually kills our spindles is our external aftermarket chiller unit dies or is not turned on and we burn the spindle up. This has happened twice in 10 years I believe.

This is our 1st Haas 15k spindle. Out other 2 high speed spindles are 3rd party, and the other Haas spindles top out at 10k rpm.

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even greased bearings loose some oil and grease has been known to come out, the slinging action can leave stain on machine. some machines i have had to put a type of fender on it so grease would not get on product/parts

KC130Loadie · Jan 3, 2018

AARONT said:
We have a VF2SS, VF4SS, and DT1 with 12k spindles that run at 10-12% when not cutting. All are 2014 models. They have been like this from day one.

Got ya. Ok, well, that allays some of my misgivings. Are your machines loud when at 15K? Any vibrations?

KC130Loadie · Jan 3, 2018

DMF_TomB said:
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even greased bearings loose some oil and grease has been known to come out, the slinging action can leave stain on machine. some machines i have had to put a type of fender on it so grease would not get on product/parts

So far ours don't sling grease...so far. Our parts are pretty big, and it is really obvious really quickly if something slings grease or oil. My biggest issue is trying to keep the tool changers greased just enough to do the job, but not launch grease...meanwhile cleaning off the plastic dust that builds up and like to wear things out quickly.

DMF_TomB · Jan 4, 2018

KC130Loadie said:
So far ours don't sling grease...so far. Our parts are pretty big, and it is really obvious really quickly if something slings grease or oil. My biggest issue is trying to keep the tool changers greased just enough to do the job, but not launch grease...meanwhile cleaning off the plastic dust that builds up and like to wear things out quickly.

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usually have to add grease monthly or yearly. then excess grease wants to go somewhere. some have a separate grease pressure relief fitting. if grease under pressure it opens and lets grease out. i have even seen where grease fitting was left off on purpose. other wise grease comes out by bearing seals.
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normal bearing seals will let a little grease out. triple sealed farm bearings made for tractors to keep the manure out seal better but take a lot more force to turn. 2 main types of seals non contact and contacting seals
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non contacting seals a motor can shut off and keep spinning for a long time. with contacting seals it usually stops in a few seconds. on a paper conveying machine the rollers often had such free spinning bearings when turned the roller would slow and then turn back and forth as the heavy side of roller would pendulum swing back and forth
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grease is soap and oil. as oil drains away grease dries out. most grease needs some sort of replenishment

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