Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1
    Koja is offline Aluminum
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    GrandRapids Mi.
    Posts
    54

    Default Tool change problem haas tm-1, help please

    My Haas mini mill has developed a problem when it releases the a tool. Normally it it is quick to let go and very profound hissing noise like it should. But now it doesn't let go completely of the tool and very little hissing sound. I'm running 120 psi and water seperator nothing has changed there. It seems like the draw bar is sticky or something . Took the cover off it today and eveything looked fine, no air leaks, all the valves and solinoids seem to be working correctly. Any ideas?????? Has anyone else had this problem? thanks in advance for any help.

  2. #2
    athack is offline Hot Rolled
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Michigan USA
    Posts
    759

    Default

    The only problem we have had with our Haas umbrella style tool changer is air related. The water seperator had become clogged. Removed the seperator and all was fine. The inner working of the seperator had rusted....go figure something that seperates out water and it rusts. With the lack of hissing on your machine I would think this may be the cause.

    I'm still looking for a good seperator if anyone has suggestions.

    Athack

  3. #3
    SIM
    SIM is offline Titanium
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Staten Island NewYork USA
    Posts
    2,272

    Default

    First, if you don't know how to release a stuck tool from spindle, tap holder with a with mallet or piece of Brass, then press Tool Release Button while holding Tool holder. If it don't pop, then try holding holder, pressing Release button and tapping...if you don't have three hands...find someone to help.

    Make sure Spindle is perfectly clean, no marks, depressions, impressions etc. Clean if you do. Tool holder, the same thing.

    Is it one holder in particular giving you a problem? If so, maybe toss..or just don't use. Once in a blue moon we find one that is problematic...

    A little oil in spindle, surface, on stud area...clean till spotless.


    All that fails...check and clean your filter, that white element gets clogged from time to time.

    With front cover off, right over the head casting, in front of Spindle motor is your Tool Release Plunger. It is the Big block of steel with air lines coming into a valve and a pair of Limit Switches. If there is a Stone Exhaust Element, you can try to remove and clean...give a try with removed...just for sh$ts and giggles.

    If that don't work...it may be time to look into the Tool Release Plunger itself. Haas sells a rebuild kit for it. It is just a simple Air Piston (Hammer) that uses compressed air to push Ram down with a good Knock... the O-rings wear and the plunger looses its Ummph.

    That should keep you busy for a little while.

    If your Haas HFO is anything like mine...give them a call and let them walk you thru the diagnosis and fix. You may have something different...or I may have missed something. I like dealing with a skilled tech who systematically progresses thru a fix...they know where I am and what has been done. It's a huge reason I buy Haas.

  4. #4
    SIM
    SIM is offline Titanium
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Staten Island NewYork USA
    Posts
    2,272

    Default

    Separators....they all suck, but better then nothing.

    I had four filters/water separators, one at the Compressor Tank to main Air line, one from the main line to the Right Side CNC Air branch, one on each Machines Air feed line, plus the filter on the machines itself. I still had water issues at the machine with daily drains to the Compressor Tank and Filters. I put Air Lines on several of the down pipes and could squirt them like water guns...it was my way of checking to see if I needed to do an additional water drains thru the day.

    I finally decided it would be best to stop the water from entering the Air line by using an Air Dryer. The dryer is a chiller that pulls the moisture from the compressed air. It goes in line after the tank. Another benefit is a Electronic Drain Valve on compressor. It opens every 20 minutes for a few seconds...it evacuates the hot compressed water from accumulating in tank, reducing the humidity of compressed air. Six months with this and I was able to pull the extra filters out of the line...clean dry air with less restrictions.

    Not cheap, but a whole lot less time starting up in the morning without having to purge the filters and I don't have machines with water issues...a huge savings.

  5. #5
    haastec is offline Cast Iron
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Southwest, USA
    Posts
    369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SIM View Post
    First, if you don't know how to release a stuck tool from spindle, tap holder with a with mallet or piece of Brass, then press Tool Release Button while holding Tool holder. If it don't pop, then try holding holder, pressing Release button and tapping...if you don't have three hands...find someone to help.

    Make sure Spindle is perfectly clean, no marks, depressions, impressions etc. Clean if you do. Tool holder, the same thing.

    Is it one holder in particular giving you a problem? If so, maybe toss..or just don't use. Once in a blue moon we find one that is problematic...

    A little oil in spindle, surface, on stud area...clean till spotless.


    All that fails...check and clean your filter, that white element gets clogged from time to time.

    With front cover off, right over the head casting, in front of Spindle motor is your Tool Release Plunger. It is the Big block of steel with air lines coming into a valve and a pair of Limit Switches. If there is a Stone Exhaust Element, you can try to remove and clean...give a try with removed...just for sh$ts and giggles.

    If that don't work...it may be time to look into the Tool Release Plunger itself. Haas sells a rebuild kit for it. It is just a simple Air Piston (Hammer) that uses compressed air to push Ram down with a good Knock... the O-rings wear and the plunger looses its Ummph.

    That should keep you busy for a little while.

    If your Haas HFO is anything like mine...give them a call and let them walk you thru the diagnosis and fix. You may have something different...or I may have missed something. I like dealing with a skilled tech who systematically progresses thru a fix...they know where I am and what has been done. It's a huge reason I buy Haas.
    Yep, what he said!

  6. #6
    Koja is offline Aluminum
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    GrandRapids Mi.
    Posts
    54

    Default

    Just an update on what I have been doing to the mini-mill . So far took apart the air dryer , cleaned it and found a bunch of dark brown stuff in every fitting and some in the main air line running up to the head. It's weird looking stuff, reminded me of brown permatex . Almost tar like. It started working again no problems for a few days. Quit working yesterday along with an alarm that said "low air volume". So took cover off the spindle and cleaned all air related items and solenoids . Found every elbow and fitting packed with brown goo . Got it back together this morning and fired it up,,,,and it still stuck , no alarms , but after a couple manual release button presses it worked fine the rest of the day. So I have my fingers crossed I got the problem. But in the back of my mind I'm starting to think the problem may be in the spindle . Hope not , but I have both the mechanical and electric manuals on the way from Haas .

  7. #7
    Blackdiamond is offline Aluminum
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Dallas TX
    Posts
    86

    Default

    I have a new Super Mini 2 and I had the same issue. Essentially what my HFO told me was that the tool holder and the spindle taper sometimes can fit too perfect. I had issues of the spindle raising up before the tool was gone, it would make a popping sound. I also had issues when I first powered up, sometimes the spindle would get stuck. If you put some lithium grease (just a bit) on your pull studs, and then remove the tool from the spindle each night (leave the spindle empty) you should not have issues. If your running for long periods of time especially at a high load and rpm, you will get some popping when changing tools cause the metal expands, but since I started doing this, it cleared up.


    hope it works, I could be totally wrong, but it worked for me haha

  8. #8
    mjk
    mjk is offline Stainless
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Wilmington DE USA
    Posts
    1,394

    Default

    This is not a solution but my own daily ritual
    At the start of a run I give a shot of WD40 to the tool holders I will be using, and the spindle socket
    good time to check for crud and chips

    the brown goo needs to go!
    Not having a Haas, is there an oiler at the machine?
    If not, it may worth a thought.
    Clean dry air is good, but in some conditions air with a litlle of the right kind of oil will help things move freely.
    What you can't do is put an oil in that would cause a combustable mixture when exhausted out a port
    Removing the tool from the spindle at shutdown is std practice in all the shops I've been in
    Mike

  9. #9
    Koja is offline Aluminum
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    GrandRapids Mi.
    Posts
    54

    Default

    Just an update on the tool change problem. Cleaned everything , new filter in the water separator,new regulator on the manifold for the tool release piston and lots of WD40 . Seems to be fine now. Did order the seal kit for the tool release piston but have not had time to put it in yet ,,,,maybe when I slow down a bit??????

  10. #10
    athack is offline Hot Rolled
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Michigan USA
    Posts
    759

    Default

    Thanks fur update.

  11. #11
    SIM
    SIM is offline Titanium
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Staten Island NewYork USA
    Posts
    2,272

    Default

    Great to hear.

    I don't really understand how gunk gets in the lines and past filters...but as you now know it does.

    Tranny shift orifice clogs up too, hanging up the shifting. Another pleasure of dirt, gunk and goo in airlines.

  12. #12
    HaasVF1 is offline Plastic
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Marlborough, MA USA
    Posts
    2

    Default

    We have a problem with our tool change as well with the tool actually falling out of the carousel as it releases. I am wondering if these might be some things for us to check as well in our VF1?

  13. #13
    Koja is offline Aluminum
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    GrandRapids Mi.
    Posts
    54

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HaasVF1 View Post
    We have a problem with our tool change as well with the tool actually falling out of the
    carousel as it releases. I am wondering if these might be some things for us to check as well in our VF1?
    When does the tool fall out? After it is in the spindle? Or when it is in the tool changer? If the tool changer then the ears that grab the tool may be sticking. Not hard to take the bottom of the carrousel and clean it. But if the spindle is not grabbing it is most likely the tool release piston.

  14. #14
    HaasVF1 is offline Plastic
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Marlborough, MA USA
    Posts
    2

    Default

    It falls out when being removed from the spindle. Whether its a delay for some reason or not seating correctly in the carousel I'm not sure.

  15. #15
    machineit2 is offline Cast Iron
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    384

    Default

    Sounds like an older machine with a 20 tool carrousel and it has gotten the fingers stuck or the springs full of chips and such. Interrupt an tool change and see how the tool holder feels in the fingers. I bet they are stuck.

    Mike

  16. #16
    Koja is offline Aluminum
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    GrandRapids Mi.
    Posts
    54

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HaasVF1 View Post
    It falls out when being removed from the spindle. Whether its a delay for some reason or not seating correctly in the carousel I'm not sure.
    Does the spindle hold the tool correctly? As in putting the tool in by hand? My guess (and just a guess not seeing what it is doing) would be the the fingers in the the tool changer are sticking as already stated. Other than that about the only other thing that would do that is the tool change height is off. Have you had the mill apart or serviced lately?

  17. #17
    haastec is offline Cast Iron
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Southwest, USA
    Posts
    369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HaasVF1 View Post
    We have a problem with our tool change as well with the tool actually falling out of the carousel as it releases. I am wondering if these might be some things for us to check as well in our VF1?
    Could be a bent carousel plate causing misalignment of the tool change fingers and the holder. Spot check 4-6 places around the carousel and see if the fingers line up to the holder. My bet is some will be off and some will be okay. (bent plate)

  18. #18
    Koja is offline Aluminum
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    GrandRapids Mi.
    Posts
    54

    Default

    I just wanted to say thank you all for helpful suggestions and support. That's why I love this forum. I know you sure helped me get back up and running, and I learned alot about my machine.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •